Best Feed

[Wisteria Farms]

We have a show steer (4 months old). What do you recommend as a good feed (grain). Right now he's on Purina products but wouldn't mind switching him to the elevators mix. Msscamp suggested C.O.B. in an earlier post... any more suggestions?

 

[rocket2222]

I would look for "Remitall Ration". The Remitall Cattle Company have bean producing top show stock for years. They definitely know how they should be fed.

 

[rk]

Check the tag on C.O.B. If it's the product I remember PMI selling down here years ago, it's merely a blend of corn, oats, and barley. If that's the case, it's definitely not a good choice, since it's not fortified, and has a poor protein profile.

 

[Wisteria Farms]

My husband thinks I asked the wrong question. He wants to know, when you go the elevator and buy feed, what do you buy (what mix) and why.

We feed Purina Startena and Growena but then switch to the elevators mix of cracked corn and finish pellets. I know you experienced guys do your own blends (like the C.O.B.)... what do you like? These cattle are on pasture but come up to be fed. Thanks!!

 

[Engler]

What weights does he need to be and when?

Are you going to try and hit winter/spring shows with him or county fairs this summer?

If memory serves IL weighs steers in in Feb/Mar, from then to State Fair it's 170 days+/-. They have to have a 2.3#/day rate of gain to show so you need to put on 400#+/-.

4 months now would make him a May correct. This is going to put him 30-60 days behind a lot of the steers that he's going to be running against.

Assuming all the above is correct I'd say that you've got to have him charging from here on. If you're going for later on I'd shoot for a 14% protien ration with a NEG of about 56-58 for now, this will grow frame & muscle but not get them too fat too quick. Try to have him weighing 750-800 there in March, then bump him to about a 60 NEG then about a 1 point/month jump from there. This is about what we shoot for on feedlot cattle.

I don't know what you have access to for feedstuffs, but tell you're feed mill this is what you want to do and they should either be able to tell you what you need for feed or they should be able to call someone at corprate to figure it out. If they can't find someone else.

DO NOT get talked into buying the "top shelf, high speed, this is what all the winners use" premix feed. Show cattle are still cattle, just because we're breaking them to lead and taking them to shows don't mean that they are some geneticly modified creature that can't make it work on conventional feed. The "show feeds" are designed to make them grow slow so they can make these calves hit more shows, I don't think that you can afford to let your calf grow that slow and make him anywhere close to where he needs to be for his end point.

 

[CKC1586]

This is the recipe I use:
1000 pounds corn
200 pounds oats
50 pounds molasses liquid
100 pounds Bovagain G38 PL
5 pounds white salt fine
2 pounds super ADE

I can give you the number of our mill if you have any questions about this recipe.

 

[msscamp]

Msscamp suggested C.O.B. in an earlier post... any more suggestions?

Would you please post the thread where I suggested C.O.B. for show cattle, because I don't recall that.

 

[Wisteria Farms]

Msscamp suggested C.O.B. in an earlier post... any more suggestions?

Would you please post the thread where I suggested C.O.B. for show cattle, because I don't recall that.

I'm sorry, the post was NOT in relation to show cattle, per se, ... it was your preferred feed to the Purina product I was feeding. Here's the thread: From my post on when to wean a bottle calf on July 24?

I have a bag of Purina Milk Replacer in the cupboard, and it does indeed say to start weaning at 4 weeks of age. I just ignored that little tidbit - right along with the amount they recommended to feed - because bottle calves are not 'one size fits all'.

Wisteria Farms - my bottle calves were usually weaned right around 3 months of age (unless there was a valid reason to extend it), and they most generally received 2 gallons of milk replacer per day until they were readily eating a couple of lbs of grain day. Grain(I prefer C.O.B. to Startena - cheaper, they tend to eat it better, nutrition is comparable, and they didn't like the pellets in Startena - so they were always going to waste) was introduced at about a week old, as was hay. Fresh water and mineral was always available.

_________________
When all is said and done - more is said than done.

 

[Wisteria Farms]

What weights does he need to be and when?

Are you going to try and hit winter/spring shows with him or county fairs this summer?

THIS WILL BE FOR COUNTY FAIRS SUMMER OF '08

If memory serves IL weighs steers in in Feb/Mar, from then to State Fair it's 170 days+/-. They have to have a 2.3#/day rate of gain to show so you need to put on 400#+/-.

YES, HE WILL BE WEIGHED THE FIRST WEEK OF MARCH.

4 months now would make him a May correct. This is going to put him 30-60 days behind a lot of the steers that he's going to be running against.

HE WAS BORN MAY 14...A TWIN WHO WAS REJECTED BY HIS MOTHER. SO IS HE EVEN FARTHER BEHIND?

Assuming all the above is correct I'd say that you've got to have him charging from here on. If you're going for later on I'd shoot for a 14% protien ration with a NEG of about 56-58 for now, this will grow frame & muscle but not get them too fat too quick. Try to have him weighing 750-800 there in March, then bump him to about a 60 NEG then about a 1 point/month jump from there. This is about what we shoot for on feedlot cattle.

WHAT IS NEG?

I don't know what you have access to for feedstuffs, but tell you're feed mill this is what you want to do and they should either be able to tell you what you need for feed or they should be able to call someone at corprate to figure it out. If they can't find someone else.

WILL DO.

DO NOT get talked into buying the "top shelf, high speed, this is what all the winners use" premix feed. Show cattle are still cattle, just because we're breaking them to lead and taking them to shows don't mean that they are some geneticly modified creature that can't make it work on conventional feed. The "show feeds" are designed to make them grow slow so they can make these calves hit more shows, I don't think that you can afford to let your calf grow that slow and make him anywhere close to where he needs to be for his end point.

AGREED. WE TRIED WEANING HIM ACCORDING TO BAG DIRECTIONS BUT THEN PUT HIM BACK ON. HIS PROGRAM RIGHT NOW IS STARTENA IN A.M., PASTURE GRAZING ALL DAY, BOTTLE AND STARTENA IN P.M. I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF I SHOULD GO TO THE PURINA GROWENA OR IF THERE WAS A GOOD MIX I COULD DO. EVERYTHING YOU'VE SAID MAKES SENSE, THANK YOU!!!

 

[hughnews]

I have a little heifer about 2 weeks old .. feeding 2 qt x2 now and she is crying lots .. should I go to 2 gallons per day ? help please email asap
[email protected] thank you very much !

 

[msscamp]

Msscamp suggested C.O.B. in an earlier post... any more suggestions?

Would you please post the thread where I suggested C.O.B. for show cattle, because I don't recall that.

I'm sorry, the post was NOT in relation to show cattle, per se, ... it was your preferred feed to the Purina product I was feeding. Here's the thread: From my post on when to wean a bottle calf on July 24?

Thank you for clarifying that - I didn't think I was dumb enough to recommend C.O.B. for show cattle, but the state of mind I've been in lately, who knows? No, C.O.B. will not work for show cattle - although it provides somewhere between 15 and 18% protien, and works very well for bottle calves - that is not enough protein to accomplish the goals of most showers. You probably need to be looking at a pre-mixed, very high protein ration to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish.

 

[Wisteria Farms]

Msscamp suggested C.O.B. in an earlier post... any more suggestions?

Would you please post the thread where I suggested C.O.B. for show cattle, because I don't recall that.

I'm sorry, the post was NOT in relation to show cattle, per se, ... it was your preferred feed to the Purina product I was feeding. Here's the thread: From my post on when to wean a bottle calf on July 24?

Thank you for clarifying that - I didn't think I was dumb enough to recommend C.O.B. for show cattle, but the state of mind I've been in lately, who knows? No, C.O.B. will not work for show cattle - although it provides somewhere between 15 and 18% protien, and works very well for bottle calves - that is not enough protein to accomplish the goals of most showers. You probably need to be looking at a pre-mixed, very high protein ration to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish.

No problem! As I said, my husband thought I asked the question wrong. I was mainly wanting to know what everyone feeds as mixed from the elevator. I know I can buy all the pricey "show feed" but was looking for an alternative. Thank you and sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Wisteria Farms]

I have a little heifer about 2 weeks old .. feeding 2 qt x2 now and she is crying lots .. should I go to 2 gallons per day ? help please email asap
[email protected] thank you very much !

Highnews1....I'm no expert BUT since you asked the question and I don't see an answer yet I'll give it a go. A lot of people here are going to poopoo giving the calf more because its going to cost you a lot in milk replacer BUT... if you're like me and don't really care then go ahead.

What I would do (based on the fact that she's only 2 weeks old) is, feed in the a.m., feed when you get home from work, and then feed again before going to bed. Try to spread out the 3 feedings as much as possible. WATCH FOR "the scoots". But keep in mind, they associate you with food (as momma) so they're going to bawl at you. Some of that you just have to give her a little scratch under the chin and say "its not time yet... go munch a little hay!" What was her birthweight? Also, have these three things available at all times (water, fresh starter grain and fresh hay). The earlier they get started on the grain and hay the better it is on their system. Little bits early on is good for them.

Once she's eating a healthy amount of grain, you can slack off on so many bottles but keep in mind, all those bottles may make her not WANT her grain and you really need to get that started. I'm only recommending the addition of a third bottle because she may be a big girl and truly hungry which is why I asked her BW. I would only do the third bottle for a couple/few weeks...your goal is to get her on the grain & hay. I hope this helps.... no matter what though, always use your EYES to assess how she's doing. Her weight should look good... use the pictures of other calves on this board to give you an idea as to what "healthy" should look like. Good luck!

 

[Engler]

NEG=net energy for gain, usually measured in Megacalories

An animal, any animal, has energy reqirements for basic functions-breathing, temp. regulation, ect. After that they put extra energy in to extras-milking to raise calf, rebreeding and growth, generally in that order.

Your steer is obviously not going to worry about breeding or raising a calf. So once you get his basic needs met every thing else is going to go to growth. You don't want to put too much to this too soon or you'll have a 900 pound fat little toad, that's why I said to ramp him up slowly.

With him being 120 days m/l I'd go ahead and wean him and keep him locked up. Going out on pasture is going to work against you 2 ways that I can see. 1)he can tank on grass and other feed that isn't very nutriant dense. This is going to slow his growth down. 2) running around in a large area he's going to have the ability to burn off more energy that could be going to grow. I'm not saying to keep him in a 10x10 box stall, but a smallish lot wouldn't hurt him.

 

[Wisteria Farms]

NEG=net energy for gain, usually measured in Megacalories

An animal, any animal, has energy reqirements for basic functions-breathing, temp. regulation, ect. After that they put extra energy in to extras-milking to raise calf, rebreeding and growth, generally in that order.

Your steer is obviously not going to worry about breeding or raising a calf. So once you get his basic needs met every thing else is going to go to growth. You don't want to put too much to this too soon or you'll have a 900 pound fat little toad, that's why I said to ramp him up slowly.

With him being 120 days m/l I'd go ahead and wean him and keep him locked up. Going out on pasture is going to work against you 2 ways that I can see. 1)he can tank on grass and other feed that isn't very nutriant dense. This is going to slow his growth down. 2) running around in a large area he's going to have the ability to burn off more energy that could be going to grow. I'm not saying to keep him in a 10x10 box stall, but a smallish lot wouldn't hurt him.

Engler, Thanks for your input. We thought letting him graze during the day/exercise would build more muscle tone (and keep him from going stir-crazy). What happens when you keep his growth at a slow rate until weigh-in (which is actually the second week of February... I looked today) and then immediately after weigh in locking him up and feeding lots of grain? Wouldn't I have a better chance at getting "rate of gain"? or does this compromise them in some way? Again, thanks so much... you sound like you know what you're talking about so I appreciate your help.

 

[msscamp]

Msscamp suggested C.O.B. in an earlier post... any more suggestions?

Would you please post the thread where I suggested C.O.B. for show cattle, because I don't recall that.

I'm sorry, the post was NOT in relation to show cattle, per se, ... it was your preferred feed to the Purina product I was feeding. Here's the thread: From my post on when to wean a bottle calf on July 24?

Thank you for clarifying that - I didn't think I was dumb enough to recommend C.O.B. for show cattle, but the state of mind I've been in lately, who knows? No, C.O.B. will not work for show cattle - although it provides somewhere between 15 and 18% protien, and works very well for bottle calves - that is not enough protein to accomplish the goals of most showers. You probably need to be looking at a pre-mixed, very high protein ration to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish.

I was mainly wanting to know what everyone feeds as mixed from the elevator.

Have you presented this question to your local feed supplier/elevator? If not, you might want to do that. Worst case scenario - you're stuck with buying pricey, pre-mixed bagged feed. Are there any other people in your area that show? If so, you might also want to ask them this question, and see how they do it. Another possible source is your local extension office. 4-H is usually overseen by the county extension office, and they could very well have a viable solution to your question. A 4th possibility would be to check with colleges who have an agriculture program. The odds of them being able to help you design a custom feeding plan would be very high, I would think. You might also want to discuss this with your vet - who knows an animals nutritional needs better than a vet who handles them? I hope this helps!

Thank you and sorry for the misunderstanding.

No problem.

 

[larryshoat]

I have a little heifer about 2 weeks old .. feeding 2 qt x2 now and she is crying lots .. should I go to 2 gallons per day ? help please email asap
[email protected] thank you very much !

Increase milk very slowly! If you want to go to1 gallon2x increase in small amounts so that you end up at the maximun rate at about 4 weeks.She will try to trick you into feeding her too much.Keep her a little hungry maybe she will try some dry feed and water.

Larry

 

[Engler]

Yes if you leave him out for a while he will have some compensatory(sp?) gain and will probably do better on the rate of gain. But if you bring him in and he can weigh 650 by Feb then he gains 2.8 until fair that puts him bumping 1200#. If you leave him out until then and he's only weighing 550 then he has to gain 3.34 lb/d to have the same end weight. Even at that weight it is probably going to be tough to run in a market beef show, but a 1200# steer has a lot better shot than an 1100 pounder.

 

[Wisteria Farms]

Msscamp suggested C.O.B. in an earlier post... any more suggestions?

Would you please post the thread where I suggested C.O.B. for show cattle, because I don't recall that.

I'm sorry, the post was NOT in relation to show cattle, per se, ... it was your preferred feed to the Purina product I was feeding. Here's the thread: From my post on when to wean a bottle calf on July 24?

Thank you for clarifying that - I didn't think I was dumb enough to recommend C.O.B. for show cattle, but the state of mind I've been in lately, who knows? No, C.O.B. will not work for show cattle - although it provides somewhere between 15 and 18% protien, and works very well for bottle calves - that is not enough protein to accomplish the goals of most showers. You probably need to be looking at a pre-mixed, very high protein ration to accomplish what you're trying to accomplish.

I was mainly wanting to know what everyone feeds as mixed from the elevator.

Have you presented this question to your local feed supplier/elevator? If not, you might want to do that. Worst case scenario - you're stuck with buying pricey, pre-mixed bagged feed. Are there any other people in your area that show? If so, you might also want to ask them this question, and see how they do it. Another possible source is your local extension office. 4-H is usually overseen by the county extension office, and they could very well have a viable solution to your question. A 4th possibility would be to check with colleges who have an agriculture program. The odds of them being able to help you design a custom feeding plan would be very high, I would think. You might also want to discuss this with your vet - who knows an animals nutritional needs better than a vet who handles them? I hope this helps!

Thank you and sorry for the misunderstanding.

No problem.

I just read the rest of your post... somehow I missed it. As for asking the elevator...they act "bothered" by my inexperience. I guess because I'm not buying huge quantities they don't want to mess with it. We'll see if they change their tune when I get my new girls and am buying more.

Our friends that we asked act like its a guarded secret. He said "tell them you want my mix". Thats fine but I would kind of like to know what goes INTO his mix! Maybe even HE doesn't know whats in his own mix... I don't know. I can't see it being such a big secret. Our extension office isn't the best so that leaves colleges and the vet (which I'll try). Thanks so much.

 

[Wisteria Farms]

Yes if you leave him out for a while he will have some compensatory(sp?) gain and will probably do better on the rate of gain. But if you bring him in and he can weigh 650 by Feb then he gains 2.8 until fair that puts him bumping 1200#. If you leave him out until then and he's only weighing 550 then he has to gain 3.34 lb/d to have the same end weight. Even at that weight it is probably going to be tough to run in a market beef show, but a 1200# steer has a lot better shot than an 1100 pounder.

Thanks a lot... that must have been what happened to last year's steer. He didn't look near as good at fair as he did when we sent him "to town" a couple weeks ago. I'll take your advice. Next step is buying a scale so we can keep track of how he's doing. I don't want to wait until mid-February to find out if he's on track or not. Thanks again.