beginning - ai or bull

[kscowboy]

Im a beginner and will have four breedable heifers next year , first timers , my question is whats the best way for us to breed as we start out , lease a bull , or ai , if ai how hard is this to learn , find a mentor that can do it , haul them to the vet ? How hard is it to identify cycles. Your opinions are valued !

 

[bigbull338]

since you just have 4hd you could take an AI course.the AI class would cost you $1000 more or less.then youd need a semen tank thats another $1000 or more.youd need to lean how to watch for heats.the signs are cows bawling alot walking the fences mounting the cow thats in heat.if a cow is in heat in am breed in pm.if she in heat in pm breed in am.if you could id borrow a bull.

 

[dun]

since you just have 4hd you could take an AI course.the AI class would cost you $1000 more or less.then youd need a semen tank thats another $1000 or more.youd need to lean how to watch for heats.the signs are cows bawling alot walking the fences mounting the cow thats in heat.if a cow is in heat in am breed in pm.if she in heat in pm breed in am.if you could id borrow a bull.

The borrowing a bull part sort of bothers me. Better to lease a virgin bull if you choose the natural service route. Check with your local LA vet, he/she may do AI for clients, or know someone who does. A local dairy might help you out, or contact your local semen supply rep, ABSglobal.com, SelectSires.com, CRI/Genex, Accelerated, etc. Or check with other producers in your area, they may do it or know someone that can. Heat detection is time consuming and easy or hard. The easy or hard part depends on the individual animals. If you know your animals individual behaviour.peculiarities it's a lot easier to catch them in heat. Timed AI is an opt6ion, I personally think it sucks, but there are those that are real high on it.

 

[Frankie]

Im a beginner and will have four breedable heifers next year , first timers , my question is whats the best way for us to breed as we start out , lease a bull , or ai , if ai how hard is this to learn , find a mentor that can do it , haul them to the vet ? How hard is it to identify cycles. Your opinions are valued !

It doesn't make a lot of financial sense to buy or rent a bull for just four heifers. See if your local vet does AI. You can deliver cattle to a vet in our area and he'll keep them until they're bred AI. He uses the HeatWatch system, I think. It's not cheap, but neither is buying a good bull and you don't want a sorry bull. Do you have a neighbor with a good herd health program that would let you use his bull? Is the bull safe to use on heifers?

If you think you'll be growing your herd, learning to AI might be a good investment for you.

 

[3waycross]

The simplest thing would be to find someone to run your cows with for around 90 days. I did that with some heifers this summer as I didn't want them bred to our herd bull. Worked out real well.

 

[TB-Herefords]

I took an AI course about four years ago for $200 to $250 through Select Sires and the University Extention. I also got an Excellent Tank for around $500. Holds more straws than I will ever AI in a season. Also I can attend the course free of charge any time I want. AI does take commitment. If you don't think you can commit the time then wait till you can. Other wise you will waste a lot of time and money.

 

[kscowboy]

Sounds like it might be easier to just find me a good gentlemen bull to do all that work for me. thanks for the quick and straight forward feedback folks !

 

[novatech]

Sounds like it might be easier to just find me a good gentlemen bull to do all that work for me. thanks for the quick and straight forward feedback folks !

Depends on what your goals are. If you just want some calves in the pasture, Then just buy a bull. The quality of the calves will reflect your decession. Also with just 4 heiferes that bull will be looking over the fence an awful lot. I hope you have good fences.
I would look for an AI tech/vet in the area if I were you and talk to him if I were you.

 

[kscowboy]

I have a contact for an adequate bull that is herd isolated which is important to me , all of my steers and heifers come from a local rancher and knock on wood , we have had no health concerns , and I have that supply line pretty well locked up for a few years. i hope to build this into about 30 cows over the next 4 years or so and somewhere in that cycle it would make sense to have our own bull or AI. The prospects of adding quality thru the AI process is what interests me. I think I'll get with my vet on this. I'm asking the questions now , way early , so I can make some informed decisions on building a small quality herd.

On a lighter note , maybe I can just use the neighbors bull , he comes around a few times a year looking for his bull roaming the countryside.

Thanks for the feedback

 

[ArrowHBrand]

Just starting out you need the facilities to be able to AI or to keep a bull. Around here the AI classes are in the spring and run about $350. I would AI until you get some experience, either have a vet do it or someone who knows what they are doing so they don't have to come out three or four times. However, a bull is a worry free way to make sure your cows get bred, but they are a whole different animal personality wise. Good luck!

 

[CowCop]

The simplest thing would be to find someone to run your cows with for around 90 days. I did that with some heifers this summer as I didn't want them bred to our herd bull. Worked out real well.

I agree. This method is less time consuming and more cost effective until your herd gets larger.

Most small beef producers in our area that have 1-10 head bring them to our farm for the summer and use our registered bull for 3 months. They get the run of 600 acres, spring water, fabulous views and all the loose salt they want. $20/head/month.

Keep in mind that--Most folks that go to AI school $$ take a long time to perfect their technique. At the cost of alot of semen and a lot of unbred time for your small herd.

Very costly.

The AI schools "bank" on that fact.

My local AI tech tells me all the latest news when he comes to fill my nitrogen tank.

Semen, vets, AI school, AI Techs, AI equipment, semen tanks etc, all cost big buckaroos. A good bull costs as well.

Put away all that money you would spend, for use on your herd in the future. Find a local farmer with a good bull.

 

[msscamp]

Im a beginner and will have four breedable heifers next year , first timers , my question is whats the best way for us to breed as we start out , lease a bull , or ai , if ai how hard is this to learn , find a mentor that can do it , haul them to the vet ? How hard is it to identify cycles. Your opinions are valued !

With 4 heifers, I would absolutely AI. The reason being, I could then hand-pick the bulls to best match my heifers strongest points, and probably have an outstanding calf crop. Another reason is that I'm not real big on leasing bulls - too many things can go wrong, especially if management is not what it should be. I would call the local colleges to inquire about possible classes, and google AI techs, and semen distributors for AI techs and classes. Heat cycles are not hard to identify - just watch for a heifer that is being ridden by another heifer and is standing still.

 

[fit2btied]

...However, a bull is a worry free way to make sure your cows get bred, but they are a whole different animal personality wise. Good luck!

Not always true. We bought a new bull last fall to use this spring. We turned him in with the cows the first weekend in April. We saw him breed 2 different cows within an hour of being turned out, and often all summer, so he was trying to do his job. Had to have one of his back feet worked on in July. Hauled 16 head to the vet the middle of August, and 13 of 16 checked open, the other 3 were called 'barely bred'. We bought one bull and leased another to try to get everything covered ASAP. The breeder stood behind him and we traded him for another bull - but that involved a 6 hour trip each way. I also think I would try to find someone to AI for me with just 4 head. One of the dairymen around here does a lot of AI work for others. He stocks semen from a few Black Angus bulls, but if you have other specific bulls you are interested in, he will order the semen for you.

 

[ROB]

Im a beginner and will have four breedable heifers next year , first timers , my question is whats the best way for us to breed as we start out , lease a bull , or ai , if ai how hard is this to learn , find a mentor that can do it , haul them to the vet ? How hard is it to identify cycles. Your opinions are valued !

where do you want to be with your herd 5 years from now? how much time and money are you willing or able to invest to get there? i think if you answer these two questions first - a few of the original questions will answer themselves.

the last couple of heifers i had AI'd i took to Trans-Ova. It cost me $20 each + haul. I also now keep all my semen at trans-ova. they charge me $45/yr. - which is less than what it would cost to fill my semen tank - and i don't have to worry about my own tank losing charge or going bad. if i decide to buy/sell semen, trans-ova takes care of shipping/receiving without any hassle.

cycles shouldn't be hard to detect. you should see cycle activity every 19-21 days. but to make life easier, put the heifers on MGA for 14 days - this will force the cycles of all 4 heifers to occur about the same time.

training course for AI is a wise investment whether you decide to AI yourself or not. you will gain a lot of information about synchronizing, heat detecting, conditioning of animals prior to breeding, etc. My training cost me $160 about six years ago - and that included the AI kit to get me started.

good luck
ROB

 

[Anonymous]

I agree with the previous statement about learning AI procedures as breeding your cows requires alot of time and effort on your part in order to be successful, whether you AI or breed with a bull.

I have more questions for you:

How much land do you own? If you purchase a bull and keep it to breed, do you have the space to then separate the heifers from their father later on so they don't get bred by him?

How big are your heifers? How big is the bull you are considering using? Are the heifers small in build and the bull big enough to hurt them during breeding?

What size calf will the bull produce in your cows? Will the calf be small enough for an easy birthing and put weigh/size on quickly later?

I think these are some, among many, important considerations.

We AI and I have taken the course but I am hardly good at it yet. We refer to the materials from the course frequently and we have learned a lot from the woman who has been AI-ing when I am not successful. You learn as you go...

 

[mnmtranching]

OK, Here's the mnmt way. 8) If I were starting out with four heifers. And that did happen, only I had 6.

A neighbor had some good cattle, I asked if he had a young bull. Yup, had a couple he missed at banding time. Bought one at market price used him for a couple years, then sold him for kill at about twice what I paid for him. He breed everything every time.
Yup! I would do the same thing every time. 8) :cboy:

 

[C HOLLAND]

I started with 5 heifers and went to AI school. I also purchased a bull (first mistake) and I found out real quick how much time it takes to catch them in heat, especially tough when you work a full time job.

I am selling the bull in a few days and plan to go without a bull and use a neighbors as cleanup after I AI them this year.

I am finally over the Heifer hurdle and that makes it easier on what bull I can use as cleanup.

If you do the math, the cost of an average bull would run between 1400-2000 and the cost to get started in AI would run around 1000-1200 for the school.tank,supplies,semen and then the learning curve in getting your success rate up. I don't think many people that AI go without a cleanup bull.


JMO and the school of hard knocks

Best of luck in your choice.

 

[ArrowHBrand]

OK, Here's the mnmt way. 8) If I were starting out with four heifers. And that did happen, only I had 6.

A neighbor had some good cattle, I asked if he had a young bull. Yup, had a couple he missed at banding time. Bought one at market price used him for a couple years, then sold him for kill at about twice what I paid for him. He breed everything every time.
Yup! I would do the same thing every time. 8) :cboy:

That sounds about like what we did our first year. We had four heifers and two cows and leased a bull from my sister in law for about five months or so. He was a yearling but he got the job done and his calves turned out really nice. Good advice.

 

[kscowboy]

opinions ,that what i wanted and thats what i got , thanks folks , your experience is a great help to us just starting up , Thanks again !

 

[hillsdown]

I started with 5 heifers and went to AI school. I found out real quick how much time it takes to catch them in heat, especially tough when you work a full time job.


If you do the math, the cost of an average bull would run between 1400-2000 and the cost to get started in AI would run around 1000-1200 for the school.tank,supplies,semen and then the learning curve in getting your success rate up. I don't think many people that AI go without a cleanup bull.
JMO and the school of hard knocks

Best of luck in your choice.

Good point C Holland.

I have been AI'ing for a few years now but I will only do the beef as I have good clean up bulls for when I miss.

I make my husband do all the Holsteins as we do not have a clean up bull (that would defeat the purpose of specialty breeding) since he has 20 years experience AI'ing.And I hate to throw away that expensive semen.