Bander recommendation?

[fnfarms1]

I have seen my Dad knife cut hundreds of calves 150-800lbs. However he passed 10yrs ago and in just dont trust myself to use a scalpel. So for the 10yrs I've owned the farm I've always used the green 'cheerio' bands and banded @ birth along with a dose of tetanus antitoxin since they aren't vaccinated yet. Also this is the vet's recommendation using antitoxin. There is a shortage on antitoxin, although I have a 50ml bottle for this year.
So I'm looking into a bigger bander, Calicrate/California etc. Thinking on giving vaccine at birth and again in spring when I band. In the past I tried banding with green cheerios at 2-3months old but it's tough with small banders. Also I had no luck banding in the chute, had to lay them down outside of chute. I've never used a different bander. Any advice on banders pros/cons?

 

[Bigfoot]

I use the green cheerios, til I just cant get it over the testicles. When they get too big, I reach for the XL bander.

 

[chaded]

I have several different kinds but I have settled on the Tri-bander. I like it because it is pretty much locked open and I can flick it shut when I'm ready. It seemed to help my wife and I when we had to go searching for nut that was being difficult. I don't band at birth anymore, just wait a a couple/few months now.

 

[elkwc]

I use both the Callicrate bander and the Zip Bandit. The Zip Bandit is easy to use and don't require any tools to apply. You just make sure you have both jewels and zip tight until the ends of the band touch. Then cut off the end. If I didn't already have the Callicrate bander not sure I would buy one.

I usually only give the 8 way with with the tetanus toxoid. My vet says as long as you don't slit the bag as some do the toxoid in the Covexin 8 way is enough. Never had any issues.

 

[Aaron]

My vet says as long as you don't slit the bag as some do the toxoid in the Covexin 8 way is enough. Never had any issues.

You can't get tetanus at all if you slit the bag. Tetanus spores need an anaerobic environment to germinate - slitting bag allows air in.

 

[sstterry]

If Bright Raven were still here, he could tell you all you wanted to know about vaccines. But, since he is not, I will say this:

Follow the vaccine manufactures directions for the vaccine. A lot just give one dose of 8 way when they band. This is not enough protection. You need to give the inital dose and the booster 10-14 days later for full protection and then you can band or cut.

I have used the cheerio bands and the zip bandit. Both work well in my view.

 

[Ky hills]

We do most of ours small enough for the. Little green bands but sometimes can't get a calf until later and have to use a bigger one. Years ago I bought one of the first models of the eze bloodless castrater banders it worked ok but a lot of steps and have to order the tubing. A couple years ago I got an XL Bander, it is less expensive and simple to use. It takes a larger thicker band. As for the tetanus antitoxin being hard to find, we ran into that last year too. A vet recommended vaccinating with a product like Covexin 8 and then waiting I believe if I remember correctly for two weeks and revaccinnating with it again and banding at that time. We did that way and came out ok.

 

[Bcompton53]

If Bright Raven were still here, he could tell you all you wanted to know about vaccines. But, since he is not, I will say this:

Follow the vaccine manufactures directions for the vaccine. A lot just give one dose of 8 way when they band. This is not enough protection. You need to give the inital dose and the booster 10-14 days later for full protection and then you can band or cut.

I have used the cheerio bands and the zip bandit. Both work well in my view.

can you use the zip bandit up to say, 500 pound bulls? also, do you get a sharp end like when you cut a zip tie? I would almost think leaving the tail end on might be safer

 

[sstterry]

If Bright Raven were still here, he could tell you all you wanted to know about vaccines. But, since he is not, I will say this:

Follow the vaccine manufactures directions for the vaccine. A lot just give one dose of 8 way when they band. This is not enough protection. You need to give the inital dose and the booster 10-14 days later for full protection and then you can band or cut.

I have used the cheerio bands and the zip bandit. Both work well in my view.

can you use the zip bandit up to say, 500 pound bulls? also, do you get a sharp end like when you cut a zip tie? I would almost think leaving the tail end on might be safer

Yes you can use them on larger bulls. It will leave a sharp end, but you cut it close enough that it touch anything.

 

[elkwc]

My vet says as long as you don't slit the bag as some do the toxoid in the Covexin 8 way is enough. Never had any issues.

You can't get tetanus at all if you slit the bag. Tetanus spores need an anaerobic environment to germinate - slitting bag allows air in.

I will disagree with you there. Our neighbor was slitting the bag and lost several to tetanus. We don't slit, band when we give first 8 way and never had an issue. I've had 2 vets both with large practices say if you don't slit you won't have any issues. Every case of tetanus I've seen they slit the bag.

 

[Aaron]

My vet says as long as you don't slit the bag as some do the toxoid in the Covexin 8 way is enough. Never had any issues.

You can't get tetanus at all if you slit the bag. Tetanus spores need an anaerobic environment to germinate - slitting bag allows air in.

I will disagree with you there. Our neighbor was slitting the bag and lost several to tetanus. We don't slit, band when we give first 8 way and never had an issue. I've had 2 vets both with large practices say if you don't slit you won't have any issues. Every case of tetanus I've seen they slit the bag.

That still does not make sense from a biological standpoint.

Regardless a $1 shot and booster of
8/9 way eliminates any concern of tetanus.

 

[elkwc]

My vet says as long as you don't slit the bag as some do the toxoid in the Covexin 8 way is enough. Never had any issues.

You can't get tetanus at all if you slit the bag. Tetanus spores need an anaerobic environment to germinate - slitting bag allows air in.

I disagree and so do my vets. My neighbor has lost several to tetanus and he slit the bags. Have had 2 vets with large practices tell me everyone they have seen tetanus on had their bags slit. We band and give the 8 way for the first time and don't slit as our vets advise and never had an issue.A slit bag can seal off.

 

[Aaron]

My vet says as long as you don't slit the bag as some do the toxoid in the Covexin 8 way is enough. Never had any issues.

You can't get tetanus at all if you slit the bag. Tetanus spores need an anaerobic environment to germinate - slitting bag allows air in.

A slit bag can seal off.

Make a bigger cut. Let the nuts hang in the sunshine. Mine all shrivel up within 3 days. Dropping off by 10th day.

 

[greggy]

I have seen my Dad knife cut hundreds of calves 150-800lbs. However he passed 10yrs ago and in just dont trust myself to use a scalpel. So for the 10yrs I've owned the farm I've always used the green 'cheerio' bands and banded @ birth along with a dose of tetanus antitoxin since they aren't vaccinated yet. Also this is the vet's recommendation using antitoxin. There is a shortage on antitoxin, although I have a 50ml bottle for this year.
So I'm looking into a bigger bander, Calicrate/California etc. Thinking on giving vaccine at birth and again in spring when I band. In the past I tried banding with green cheerios at 2-3months old but it's tough with small banders. Also I had no luck banding in the chute, had to lay them down outside of chute. I've never used a different bander. Any advice on banders pros/cons?

Hi, I have very cheap bander and bands, they are for sheep.

I have done a lot of bull calves as well, I use same bands, cause sheep are far bigger than bulls at lifes start......and I see no reason to buy something extra when they work well.

I vaccinate all sheep and calves beforehand, or at same time, the vacs we have include tetanus.

It does not bother them, I have done some while drinking milk, some in a race, and some in a pen, all were standing, none were bothered at all part from in pen when I was trying to corner them.

I personally would not cut them open with anything, unless vac was done prior. And they were just to big/late.

Sometimes, we just have to use common sense, if we cut open out own foot, versus, put a rubber band on our foot, which one would we want to have prior tetanus protection against ? If everything on the knife was ultra clean, maybe it would be same.....

Anyways, banding is no prob, and works well, just make sure you have both below the band, if too young, you may have to wait.

 

[greggy]

PS do not give any vaccines at birth, nor if you have given other medications like antibiotics etc.

Vac at the suggested times by manufacturer...

 

[Lucky_P]

Vaccinating cows with an 8 or 9 way Clostridial 2 months or so prior to calving should provide enough colostral antibodies against tetanus to protect baby calves.
Like greggy says, we do not recommend giving Clostridial bacterins to newborns... in all likelihood, they're not going to respond to them, and they do 'knock the calf back' to some degree... you don't want to do anything to make that baby feel bad and not nurse aggressively for the first 2-3 days.
Colostral antibodies probably interfere with calf's immune response to most vaccines for at least 2 months, so vaccination before 60 days for most things is not going to be very effective.
Really, about the only 'vaccines' anyone should administer to newborns are - and really, only if health issues in your herd indicate the need for them - oral rota/corona vaccine and intranasal IBR/PI3/BRSV; some would include C&D toxoid in this list of 'allowables'. If you're banding newborns, and the cows have not had tetanus vaccination (and appropriate boosters, if needed) recently, Tetanus Antitoxin (not Toxoid) can be given to provide immediate protection.
I have seen tetanus in baby calves banded with the green Cheerio... but not nearly so many as I have in bigger bulls banded at 4-8cwt.

First tetanus case I ever saw was in one of my own calves, knife-cut at about 450 lb. So... slitting the bag on a banded bull is no guarantee...

 

[elkwc]

You can't get tetanus at all if you slit the bag. Tetanus spores need an anaerobic environment to germinate - slitting bag allows air in.

A slit bag can seal off.

Make a bigger cut. Let the nuts hang in the sunshine. Mine all shrivel up within 3 days. Dropping off by 10th day.

I just band and don't slit and have no issues. I believe in following my vets advice. A friend who buys cutter bulls says the same. There is a chance of tetanus regardless of method.

 

[fnfarms1]

So some said dont vaccinate at birth. I know several guys that do. So why not other than adding stress to a new born ie already stressed calf.
I try not to handle more than I must. I catch them and tag at birth anyway, almost have to for ID purposes if o get one on the neighbors etc. So while they are caught and small I band if possible. Looking for other options but still avoid handling. So considering a dose of covexin8 at birth with an ear tag, then 2and dose at spring working and banding with XL bander or similar. Thoughts?

 

[sstterry]

Many producers don't give the clostridial vaccines to calves until they get to be at least 3 to 4 months of age, and then we try to make sure that they get a booster at some point after that, as well. If a herd has a history of problems in young calves, or a history of tetanus (when banding calves), we recommend clostridial vaccines be given soon after birth,� explains Alley.

http://cattletoday.com/archive/2012/January/CT2652.php

 

[greggy]

So some said dont vaccinate at birth. I know several guys that do. So why not other than adding stress to a new born ie already stressed calf.
I try not to handle more than I must. I catch them and tag at birth anyway, almost have to for ID purposes if o get one on the neighbors etc. So while they are caught and small I band if possible. Looking for other options but still avoid handling. So considering a dose of covexin8 at birth with an ear tag, then 2and dose at spring working and banding with XL bander or similar. Thoughts?

As above explanation.....

If you did straight away at birth, the immune system is not going to react the way it should to a vaccine, also do not vac if on antibiotics or sick dealing with something else.

I suppose that the companies making the stuff also do studies to see the optimal average dosing and timing, I have not seen anything, including milk that was recommended for newborn anything.

Otherwise we would have the drugs, vacs, and everything else ready for the first day, so it could be all over at once Convenience for us is not the same as optimal care for whatever species of animal, sure there must be trade offs at times, but yeah, stick roughly at least to guidelines and practices, otherwise, with vac, my understanding is you may as well save your money and the animal the stress.