Bad Chinese and Cows on Holiday

[farmerjan]

hurleyjd; I agree that the "bigger is better" whole BS is not the best answer. But remember that even the land grant colleges were pushing that. I prefer the smaller farms, with more people actually working , and then more support businesses are also employing people. I would like to see something that would support the small family farms. BUT there is a lack of workers for that concept anymore, because of all the technology and electronic gadgets that have totally invaded and permeated those younger workers lives. There are fewer and fewer of the younger generations that want to HAVE to work 7 days a week as most small dairies do. They also don't want to work that hard without making a DECENT paycheck. $20,000 a year does not cut it for a young person coming up. One of the reasons the robots have caught on is at least they don't have to be there every day twice a day at 4 and 4 or something like that. Robots do take management, but you can usually leave to go to a kids ball game, or school program, or stay out later and not have to get up and go to work on 4 hours sleep. I don't think that the "green deal" would help the small farm as much as hurt the general economy with the no oil and gas, do away with coal, no airplanes, no cars except electric.... too extreme too fast. I would like to see us get away from some of the polluting, but short of a total nuclear disaster, it can't be done in such a short time without realizing that there has to be other alternatives for all the displaced workers. Besides, for someone who is so concerned about money and all that, where did she get off wanting a RAISE only a couple of months into the job.....Raises come with on job performance and she sure didn't have any of that yet......

Here we are seeing the small 50-100 cow dairies sell out as the farmer gets older and the farm cannot support 2 "paychecks"; the younger generation that even wants to stay can't manage it financially. And most don't want to stay because they have seen the 24/7 that their fathers/families have had to put in. I get it.... I always wanted my own small dairy, and today I am glad that it never managed to happen because it would have been a dead issue by now.

It is all we can do to keep the beef cattle going with the overhead here, and low prices in return. We have cut back a bit, lost a couple of rented places, and are not looking for more because the work and time cannot be justified with the prices of feeders. Most places are older, run down farms, and require alot of time and work, to just get the fences back in shape. The ones that have good fences and water and all, want more than you can justify paying for. We are beginning to question if it is worth all the time spent on the cows, feeding, haying, calving, moving to rented pastures, gathering them back up, weaning, selling, preg checks, not to mention any doctoring or problems that crop up.
So yeah, something to make it economical for the smaller farmer would be nice, but I just don't see it with any of the little I've heard or seen about the green deal. I don't want a hand out, I want fair prices for my animals. If the butcher inbetween us and the plate on your table, can get $15-20 / hour, then we ought to be able to get at least $5-10 / hr.....
Whichever poster said that when things went up, and we were getting good prices, but then when our prices dropped and they didn't in the store, hit it..... Milk is bringing 17.50 maybe now..... but it was bringing 17.50 in 1989 when I was working on a dairy milking, and I was doing okay on alot less wages. Because everything cost less overall..... today things are 2-3x as much and they still want dairies to make it on the same income. I cannot see where any amount of "green deal" will make it more equitable.

Places that are planting trees to help with improving their climate and such are a good thing. But if they don't do something about the increases in population everywhere, all the healthy climate won't mean diddly s@#t if there isn't enough food to go around. And all those trees will take away from some of the ground that could produce food. Sure, slash and burn and plant and use up the soil is NOT THE ANSWER, but if all the ones behind the green deal would implement it somewhere and show that it is doable, they would have enough support to change the world. Just don't talk about it; implement it somewhere and SHOW THAT IT CAN WORK....

 

[hurleyjd]

hurleyjd; I agree that the "bigger is better" whole BS is not the best answer. But remember that even the land grant colleges were pushing that. I prefer the smaller farms, with more people actually working , and then more support businesses are also employing people. I would like to see something that would support the small family farms. BUT there is a lack of workers for that concept anymore, because of all the technology and electronic gadgets that have totally invaded and permeated those younger workers lives. There are fewer and fewer of the younger generations that want to HAVE to work 7 days a week as most small dairies do. They also don't want to work that hard without making a DECENT paycheck. $20,000 a year does not cut it for a young person coming up. One of the reasons the robots have caught on is at least they don't have to be there every day twice a day at 4 and 4 or something like that. Robots do take management, but you can usually leave to go to a kids ball game, or school program, or stay out later and not have to get up and go to work on 4 hours sleep. I don't think that the "green deal" would help the small farm as much as hurt the general economy with the no oil and gas, do away with coal, no airplanes, no cars except electric.... too extreme too fast. I would like to see us get away from some of the polluting, but short of a total nuclear disaster, it can't be done in such a short time without realizing that there has to be other alternatives for all the displaced workers. Besides, for someone who is so concerned about money and all that, where did she get off wanting a RAISE only a couple of months into the job.....Raises come with on job performance and she sure didn't have any of that yet......

Here we are seeing the small 50-100 cow dairies sell out as the farmer gets older and the farm cannot support 2 "paychecks"; the younger generation that even wants to stay can't manage it financially. And most don't want to stay because they have seen the 24/7 that their fathers/families have had to put in. I get it.... I always wanted my own small dairy, and today I am glad that it never managed to happen because it would have been a dead issue by now.

It is all we can do to keep the beef cattle going with the overhead here, and low prices in return. We have cut back a bit, lost a couple of rented places, and are not looking for more because the work and time cannot be justified with the prices of feeders. Most places are older, run down farms, and require alot of time and work, to just get the fences back in shape. The ones that have good fences and water and all, want more than you can justify paying for. We are beginning to question if it is worth all the time spent on the cows, feeding, haying, calving, moving to rented pastures, gathering them back up, weaning, selling, preg checks, not to mention any doctoring or problems that crop up.
So yeah, something to make it economical for the smaller farmer would be nice, but I just don't see it with any of the little I've heard or seen about the green deal. I don't want a hand out, I want fair prices for my animals. If the butcher inbetween us and the plate on your table, can get $15-20 / hour, then we ought to be able to get at least $5-10 / hr.....
Whichever poster said that when things went up, and we were getting good prices, but then when our prices dropped and they didn't in the store, hit it..... Milk is bringing 17.50 maybe now..... but it was bringing 17.50 in 1989 when I was working on a dairy milking, and I was doing okay on alot less wages. Because everything cost less overall..... today things are 2-3x as much and they still want dairies to make it on the same income. I cannot see where any amount of "green deal" will make it more equitable.

Places that are planting trees to help with improving their climate and such are a good thing. But if they don't do something about the increases in population everywhere, all the healthy climate won't mean diddly s@#t if there isn't enough food to go around. And all those trees will take away from some of the ground that could produce food. Sure, slash and burn and plant and use up the soil is NOT THE ANSWER, but if all the ones behind the green deal would implement it somewhere and show that it is doable, they would have enough support to change the world. Just don't talk about it; implement it somewhere and SHOW THAT IT CAN WORK....

Here is an article about some coal miners backing the Green New Deal. What we have no is an administration of radio talking heads and commentators that just know how to talk and not do any thing.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/coal-over-miners-rooting-green-040003525.html

 

[Caustic Burno]

Well said to Aaron and FarmerJan

I think there's an end game plan to these low US milk prices.. when even large dairies are having a hard time of it, something has gotta change eventually
Maybe there will be a disease outbreak (wouldn't be that surprising with 10,000 cows in one place)... Or maybe once there are no more small farmers to squeeze out and their places have been bought up, suddenly, MIRACULOUSLY, there will be a milk shortage.... Store price for milk will be $4/gal instead of $.90, and SOMEONE will be raking in some serious money.

Look at what the supposed beef shortage of 2015 did for retail prices!.. I can say that around here, retail prices haven't come down much since despite calf prices being about 65% of what they were in 2015... My ugliest dink calf that year brought $1450 and he didn't make the 400 lb mark
The smart people got out of cows entirely in 2015, the not so smart ones sold some and upgraded equipment paying cash.. even less smart ones upgraded equipment on credit, and the really dumb ones bought cows/calves

Spoken spot on.....

In the small farm hay day the family lived in a three bedroom 100 amp home with one vehicle. That lifestyle is not acceptable any more.
After the war (WWII) the industrial revolution had taken off and Americans left the farm for an easier life. We are now in the third or fourth generation that has left the farm for the entertainment lifestyle. They are not coming back. They have been raised in a 40 hour work week to come home to go to the deer lease, golf course,bass fishing, RVing etc.
Last seminar I attended the average cattleman was 60+ in Texas orchard operators were pushing 70.
The small operator will be a rarity or operating in a niche market as the boomers die off.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Totally agree with the lifestyle observations. AC, happy hour, and sports on the wide screen are hard to beat. :nod:

I am not so sure about the small operator observation. Yes, there are some farms here that converted to deer hunting only. But what I see are less "medium sized" producers, but plenty of "small size" producers. I think it is just cheaper to support a small herd of welfare cows rather than a bigger one. :cowboy:

 

[shaz]

The smart people got out of cows entirely in 2015, the not so smart ones sold some and upgraded equipment paying cash.. even less smart ones upgraded equipment on credit, and the really dumb ones bought cows/calves

I knew I was a halfwit, but now I am thinking I am borderline retarded.

and I drink excessively on top of that

 

[Caustic Burno]

Totally agree with the lifestyle observations. AC, happy hour, and sports on the wide screen are hard to beat. :nod:

I am not so sure about the small operator observation. Yes, there are some farms here that converted to deer hunting only. But what I see are less "medium sized" producers, but plenty of "small size" producers. I think it is just cheaper to support a small herd of welfare cows rather than a bigger one. :cowboy:

Well here the only new operators are doctors, lawyers or Indian Chiefs from out of town. Most talk around the wisdom table at the feed store is an exit strategy.

 

[Stocker Steve]

No oil money here but lots of lakes. Lakes mean lake homes for doctors, lawyers, and chiefs. Lake homes mean contractors and service workers. Many contractors have cattle.

The other group of new beef producers are semi retired dairy men with a line of haying equipment. This group is about used up, since four of the six dairymen near me shut down in the last several years, and two of them bought back black cows.

 

[Stocker Steve]

The exit strategy here is selling the black and white cows, and then buying back solid black cows.

Can they top that at the feed store?

 

[Caustic Burno]

Steve I personally know only three guys with about 50 head left. My neighbor still runs a couple hundred. The rest of us have been selling down due to the odometer. I would guess most are hanging on to about twenty head.
The other option are plant the pasture in pine plantation to keep the tax exemption.

 

[farmerjan]

hurleyjd; Thank you for the reference to the article. It was a bit of an eye opener for me. I really don't know alot about the coal industry, but have read some and do realize that the coal companies were next to "owning" the workers and that conditions were horrible for years, even with the labor unions supporting the miners. The old song, I think by Jimmy Dean, about "owe my soul to the company store" I am sure is more true than many realize. I can see where the solar industry, and wind, would be a good fit for them. So, thank you for bringing that to my attention. I cannot find alot of info on the "green New Deal"; do you have any references that I can look at? I just find AOC very abrasive to listen to and big mouthed. Maybe a "soft sell" would be a better way to get people to listen to it.

 

[hurleyjd]

hurleyjd; Thank you for the reference to the article. It was a bit of an eye opener for me. I really don't know alot about the coal industry, but have read some and do realize that the coal companies were next to "owning" the workers and that conditions were horrible for years, even with the labor unions supporting the miners. The old song, I think by Jimmy Dean, about "owe my soul to the company store" I am sure is more true than many realize. I can see where the solar industry, and wind, would be a good fit for them. So, thank you for bringing that to my attention. I cannot find alot of info on the "green New Deal"; do you have any references that I can look at? I just find AOC very abrasive to listen to and big mouthed. Maybe a "soft sell" would be a better way to get people to listen to it.

Tennessee Ernie Ford was the artist that did the song. It was from the lyrics of 16 Tons. Big mouth and abrasive got the man elected we call the President. Being meek and mild will not get women anywhere in the political atmosphere have now.

 

[hurleyjd]

Here is as good place to post this link as I can find without starting a new post. Really shows where we are now with our politicians.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/sonny-perdue-whining-farmers-angry-reaction-013733229.html

 

[farmerjan]

hurleyjd; Thank you for the reference to the article. It was a bit of an eye opener for me. I really don't know alot about the coal industry, but have read some and do realize that the coal companies were next to "owning" the workers and that conditions were horrible for years, even with the labor unions supporting the miners. The old song, I think by Jimmy Dean, about "owe my soul to the company store" I am sure is more true than many realize. I can see where the solar industry, and wind, would be a good fit for them. So, thank you for bringing that to my attention. I cannot find alot of info on the "green New Deal"; do you have any references that I can look at? I just find AOC very abrasive to listen to and big mouthed. Maybe a "soft sell" would be a better way to get people to listen to it.

Tennessee Ernie Ford was the artist that did the song. It was from the lyrics of 16 Tons. Big mouth and abrasive got the man elected we call the President. Being meek and mild will not get women anywhere in the political atmosphere have now.

Thanks, I didn't think it was Jimmy Dean but I just had one of those "senior moments" and he was the only one I could think of. My parents used to play 16 tons and I loved TEF deep voice.

You don't have to be as abrasive as she is to get support and to get people to listen to you. She is a first year politician, get some experience, make some reasonable connections, and go about it in a more reasonable manner. Someone like her will turn me and many people I have talked to OFF without giving her a chance to get her point across. There is a young black woman running against AOC and I have listened to her talk and her ideas. She is very well spoken and makes sense. Since I am not up north I don't follow it as much, but sometimes things will catch your eye, and this did. She has talked about how AOC has caused so much divisiveness between people. I was very impressed with her manner, and way of talking and ideas. It is said at first she supported AOC, but that her attitude and abrasiveness has caused this republican candidate to change her mind and wants to focus more on policies that are affecting them there in NY. It will be a tough sell, but if she can get the grassroots people to listen, and voice their concerns, then who knows.