Back grounding ration

[Cdnbeefarmer]

Hi everyone , been reading on this site for along time and finally joined. I've been feeding some angus/ simmi calves . They weigh 640 Lbs and I would like to be 2lbs adg . I have them on 5 lbs cracked corn, .75 lbs of soybean meal , free choice hay (poor quality ) and free choice mineral . Can anyone tell me what % protein and energy of this feed ? Will the corn be hard on the calves? Maybe i should be feeding a lighter ration or something for a better gain .
Thanks

 

[Cdnbeefarmer]

Ok guys and gals , I know there is all of knowledge on this site ! Did I ask the wrong questions or am the new guy to the site ? Appreciate any help and advise you are all willing to help out with
Thanks :)

 

[pricefarm]

Well Iam no expert but that comes out to be around 12% protein on the grain. As far as how much to feed them to make them gain 2 lbs a day I don't know but feeding only 6 lbs of grain and poor hay may not do it I have always heard to feed 2% of there body weight in grain so that would be around 12 lbs per day. As far as the the corn being hard on them I don't think so as long as you work them into it slowly and still keep some hay out for them. Maybe someone with a more experience can give you some more info. If you have a local co op go by there and talk to there feed guy Iam sure they could help u out on how much to feed and what to feed to get your daily gain goal

 

[TexasBred]

Hi everyone , been reading on this site for along time and finally joined. I've been feeding some angus/ simmi calves . They weigh 640 Lbs and I would like to be 2lbs adg . I have them on 5 lbs cracked corn, .75 lbs of soybean meal , free choice hay (poor quality ) and free choice mineral . Can anyone tell me what % protein and energy of this feed ? Will the corn be hard on the calves? Maybe i should be feeding a lighter ration or something for a better gain .
Thanks

You can get that amount of gain but I wouldn't use that ration. It's too hot to be considered a "backgrounding ration" as well as expensive For your purposes a simple creep pellet would probably work or you could mix some corn to the pellets to increase the TDN and energy a bit.5 parts pellets to 1 part corn. Still a rather mellow ration.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

:welcome:

 

[pricefarm]

Hi everyone , been reading on this site for along time and finally joined. I've been feeding some angus/ simmi calves . They weigh 640 Lbs and I would like to be 2lbs adg . I have them on 5 lbs cracked corn, .75 lbs of soybean meal , free choice hay (poor quality ) and free choice mineral . Can anyone tell me what % protein and energy of this feed ? Will the corn be hard on the calves? Maybe i should be feeding a lighter ration or something for a better gain .
Thanks

You can get that amount of gain but I wouldn't use that ration. It's too hot to be considered a "backgrounding ration" as well as expensive For your purposes a simple creep pellet would probably work or you could mix some corn to the pellets to increase the TDN and energy a bit.5 parts pellets to 1 part corn. Still a rather mellow ration.

Is 12% protein to much for growing calves??

 

[TexasBred]

Hi everyone , been reading on this site for along time and finally joined. I've been feeding some angus/ simmi calves . They weigh 640 Lbs and I would like to be 2lbs adg . I have them on 5 lbs cracked corn, .75 lbs of soybean meal , free choice hay (poor quality ) and free choice mineral . Can anyone tell me what % protein and energy of this feed ? Will the corn be hard on the calves? Maybe i should be feeding a lighter ration or something for a better gain .
Thanks

You can get that amount of gain but I wouldn't use that ration. It's too hot to be considered a "backgrounding ration" as well as expensive For your purposes a simple creep pellet would probably work or you could mix some corn to the pellets to increase the TDN and energy a bit.5 parts pellets to 1 part corn. Still a rather mellow ration.

Is 12% protein to much for growing calves??

Not at all.

 

[pricefarm]

You can get that amount of gain but I wouldn't use that ration. It's too hot to be considered a "backgrounding ration" as well as expensive For your purposes a simple creep pellet would probably work or you could mix some corn to the pellets to increase the TDN and energy a bit.5 parts pellets to 1 part corn. Still a rather mellow ration.[/quote]


Is 12% protein to much for growing calves??[/quote]

Not at all.[/quote]

Then what do you mean by to hot?

 

[tom4018]

I don't think you will see 2 pound a day on any ration feeding it at 1% of body weight with poor hay this time of the year.

I think I know what TB means by too hot, but will let him answer.

Some people feed a mix or 1/3 corn, 1/3 soy hulls and 1/3 corn gluten or distillers grain (depends on what is available and cheaper in your area) and so well.
I have done it in the past on lightweight feeders and did well. A lot of it depends on how cheap you are trying to do it, around here about $220 a ton for bulk feed unless you have the ability to take large loads is the best you can do on purchased feeds.

 

[Cdnbeefarmer]

In my part of the country there are mostly loggers and cow/calf guys. I can buy calves at a bit of a discount , get a 50000 lbs load up to 850 and then sell . I don't mind having a little more money in a ration for that reason . Always heard that to much corn would harm the Calves at that weight . I have a load of barley coming this week , so may increase feed with that as it is cheaper than corn and a bit higher in protein . Can anyone explain to me or show me a link of how you take lbs of feedstuff a to figure protein ?
Thanks

 

[TexasBred]

You can get that amount of gain but I wouldn't use that ration. It's too hot to be considered a "backgrounding ration" as well as expensive For your purposes a simple creep pellet would probably work or you could mix some corn to the pellets to increase the TDN and energy a bit.5 parts pellets to 1 part corn. Still a rather mellow ration.

Is 12% protein to much for growing calves??[/quote]

Not at all.[/quote]

Then what do you mean by to hot?[/quote]

Too high in energy and starches. Nothing to do with crude protein. Simply put, "Backgrounding" is preparing cattle for the "hot" ration to be fed later so as not to face problems of digestive upsets, acidosis and going off feed completely.

 

[Kingfisher]

How many calves are you feeding?

 

[Cdnbeefarmer]

I try to feed between 50 - 60 . Have 55 right now that I hope I can turn a profit on !

 

[snake67]

Hi everyone , been reading on this site for along time and finally joined. I've been feeding some angus/ simmi calves . They weigh 640 Lbs and I would like to be 2lbs adg . I have them on 5 lbs cracked corn, .75 lbs of soybean meal , free choice hay (poor quality ) and free choice mineral . Can anyone tell me what % protein and energy of this feed ? Will the corn be hard on the calves? Maybe i should be feeding a lighter ration or something for a better gain .
Thanks

Where in Canada?

Bez

 

[Cdnbeefarmer]

I'm a maritimer, about 300 kms east of the Quebec border .

 

[snake67]

I'm a maritimer, about 300 kms east of the Quebec border .

Well, that does not say much - it is a big area. I was born in PEI - many years ago - now in Ontario - as are a couple of others on here

What province are you in?

You need to put up your location if you plan on staying here because there is a huge difference in feed requirements from where you live and southern Texas or Utah or California as examples. Regional differences are truly important and cannot be ignored.

Be that as it may I assume you have a feed mill somewhere near you that you deal with.

Stop in and ask them to get their feed specialist to give you a call. If you buy from that mill that service is usually free.

Second option - and might be the best - is to contact your provincial government ag folks - they will have a feed specialist on staff.

I utilize ours on a regular basis in this province

A wealth of information that is applicable to your own specific location as well.

More to follow should you respond to this signal

Bez

 

[Cdnbeefarmer]

Thanks for the comments , I'm west of fredericton NB . There is a local feed mill which I have zero confidence anything about cattle feed . I'll try the local gov. agency !

 

[snake67]

Thanks for the comments , I'm west of fredericton NB . There is a local feed mill which I have zero confidence anything about cattle feed . I'll try the local gov. agency !

Worst case scenario call the Ont provincial ag folks and ask for Christoph Wand - the call is free he is based out of University of Guelph

He is a good guy and we use him all the time for sheep and cattle rations

I know there are several good mills in your part of the world - talk to the others

I think your ration is light but I am not there so you need to look at this from different angles

Get your hay tested in groups of about 20 - 50 bales - it is usually different from each field - we do it field by field.

Talk to your local cash croppers and see if you can swing a deal for "corn fines" - I get them for free but you might find them cheap

Cheers

Bez

 

[LazyP]

Hopefully I can shed some light here as the posts seem to be asking the same question in different ways.
Don't focus on protein alone when trying to get specific gains or end results.
You need to look at the goal and how to get there. If the goal is to fatten, feed to do so, if the goal is to condition heifers for replacements, feed to do so.
In this example I hope to explain as I understand the basics.
600 pound replacement heifer needs 13.5-15 pounds of dry matter a day to gain 1.5-2.0 pounds per day. The dry matter needs to include 1.3 to 1.5 pounds of crude protein daily. The digestible material needs to be in the 66%-68% range. TDN about 9-10 lbs.
Im going to make up an example ration that you can plug numbers in and out to come up with your own ration using different feeds and forages. You just need to research the data for each feed and forage.
10 pounds Alfalfa hay with 55% TDN and 16% protein ( 10 x .55= 5.5 lbs TDN) (10 x .16 = 1.6 lbs protein)
4 pounds corn with 83% TDN and 9% protein. (4 x .83 = 3.32 lbs TDN) (4 x .09 = .36 lb protein)
SO totals we have TDN 5.5 lbs + 3.32 lbs = 8.82 lbs and Protein is 1.6 lbs + .36 lbs = 1.96 lbs.
We can calculate the dry matter to fed weights too. This takes away moisture in the feed as moisture weight is not a source of nutrition.
Alfalfa is 90% dry matter so in order to feed 10 lbs of dry matter alfalfa (10 /.90 = 11.1 lbs actual fed alfalfa)
No. 2 Corn is 87% dry matter so in order to feed 4 lbs of dry matter corn (4 / .87 = 4.59 lbs actual fed corn)
Look at the feed ration now.
We have more protein than we need by almost .5 lb.
We are close to TDN number.
We could adjust the ration with other feeds or forages and bring both the cost and nutrition numbers into check.
Adding some grass hay and taking away some alfalfa will help this. The TDN of grass hay is lower as is the protein usually. You can adjust the grass hay, alfalfa and corn mixture to meet the requirements.

Don't focus too much on getting cattle just protein. Adding high protein foods with low energy doesn't work well. Cows will use the required protein and the rest will go out in waste. They need energy from other sources such as mix feed and corn to use for digestion. Calculate what you need and how to best get it. Cubes, feed mix, hay or liquid feeds can all be calculated.

This was my last ration used for heifers such as this. Fed daily.
12% mixed feed 4 lbs 12% protein and 85% TDN ( .48 lbs Protein and 3.4 lbs TDN)
Alfalfa hay 3 lbs 16% protein and 55% TDN ( .48 lbs Protein and 1.65 TDN)
Grass Hay 7 lbs (Tifton 85) with 16% protein and 68% TDN ( 1.12 Protein and 4.76 TDN)
Totals Protein = 2.08 lbs and TDN = 9.81 lbs
Little more protein than I would like but the hay was at a good price so I didn't lose any money on the overage of protein.
Dry Matter= 14 lbs
Protein = 2.08 lbs
TDN = 9.81 lbs
Daily gains of 1.65 lbs.

Throw out a mineral tub to make up for the lack of minerals if need be.

Hopefully this helps.

Lazy P

 

[TexasBred]

Your nutrient densities in your examples are not in line with NRC standards but in general the mix will work. I'd certainly like to see that "creep' with an 85% TDN even on a dry matter basis as well as the cost of it.