I am brand new to this sight and have never involved myself much with the online forums but the first post i read was on the small acreage owner and it was as if it was made for me so thanks for the information i think i saved it to my computer so if I did maybe I will be able to find it again. Anyway my hope for my families small place is to try the baby calves and raise them in hutches until weaned and then turn them out in a 5 acre pasture or possibly group pen them in a small fenced area and feed. My questions are is this a losing battle financially, if not then can someone give me a map of the proper process to do this right for quality healthy animals and proper food stuffs where a profit can be made.
Baby calves can i make it work
- Thread starter dbro
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backhoeboogie
Well-known member
If you are buying a quality milk replacer and feeding it, you are going to be hard pressed to make a profit. Then you have to consider your time. That in itself is why dairy calves are so cheap. They are getting dumped.
If you have no experience at this, you can end up with extremely sick or dead calves. Some people end up spending a fortune on vet bills.
Nurse cows, proper facilities, and being prepared (with prescription medications) can make money.
A good mentor to show you the ropes would be the best thing. Someone who can take a temp of a calf and diagnose problems - nip it in the bud.
You'd get a variety on opinions on this board.
If you have no experience at this, you can end up with extremely sick or dead calves. Some people end up spending a fortune on vet bills.
Nurse cows, proper facilities, and being prepared (with prescription medications) can make money.
A good mentor to show you the ropes would be the best thing. Someone who can take a temp of a calf and diagnose problems - nip it in the bud.
You'd get a variety on opinions on this board.
charangusman08
Well-known member
Can you make money? Sure you can but don't expect to get rich. Good quality Holstein calves go for $150-$200 a peice. They keep going up to.
regolith
Well-known member
Very appealling. They do all the work. You just sit back and watch the calves grow. You might want a bit more land though because you'll be feeding the cows as well.
As for baby calves (bottle feeding) it can work, but it's a lot easier with a lot of experience. One of your first priorities is to get calves with re-sale value - yes, dairies have surplus calves and may almost give some of those away, but not all of them will sell at weaning or older. In this area, there's no market for evident Jersey genetics and that also makes buyers wary of anything red, tan or brown. Holstein, Herefordxholstein and Angusxholstein bulls are worthwhile, heifers can be bought cheaper and sell cheaper later.
google 'calf rearing' and you should find step by step instructions - there's many different ways of doing the job but as a beginner you'd be wise to avoid any extremes like condensed milk systems, three week weaning, or milk+grass only. An experienced person can make them work, I've seen the uninitiated too often think 'wow, I can do this and save money' and that's not how it works.
As for baby calves (bottle feeding) it can work, but it's a lot easier with a lot of experience. One of your first priorities is to get calves with re-sale value - yes, dairies have surplus calves and may almost give some of those away, but not all of them will sell at weaning or older. In this area, there's no market for evident Jersey genetics and that also makes buyers wary of anything red, tan or brown. Holstein, Herefordxholstein and Angusxholstein bulls are worthwhile, heifers can be bought cheaper and sell cheaper later.
google 'calf rearing' and you should find step by step instructions - there's many different ways of doing the job but as a beginner you'd be wise to avoid any extremes like condensed milk systems, three week weaning, or milk+grass only. An experienced person can make them work, I've seen the uninitiated too often think 'wow, I can do this and save money' and that's not how it works.
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
I avoid dairy calves altogether unless I am looking at heifers for replacement nurse cows. The problem with buying dairy heifers at the dairy sale is that there are many free martins and if you don't know what to look for, you'll get stuck with one.
I go to the sale barn and buy beef calves split off of old cows. Try to find one a week old. It has had clostrums and is on its way. If there are several people there bidding, I opt out. If no one is bidding, the auctioneer or ring man will quit splitting the calves off and just sale them as a pair. Occasionally the buyer just wants the cows and he will run calves back through.
The calves at the sale barn will have been exposed to practically everything. If they are a week old and have had clostrums, they are usually okay.
I have bought a few that were a bit too old. I have learned to let them get extremely hungry, put the nurse cow in a nurse crate, and then crowd them in to her in the pen.
The beef calves cost more that dairy bull calves. They sell for significantly more later tho. More profit. That has been my experience.
As far as "making it work", if you are using nurse cows and have the right facility, it is hard not to make money at it.
Bottle feeding is a different story.
I go to the sale barn and buy beef calves split off of old cows. Try to find one a week old. It has had clostrums and is on its way. If there are several people there bidding, I opt out. If no one is bidding, the auctioneer or ring man will quit splitting the calves off and just sale them as a pair. Occasionally the buyer just wants the cows and he will run calves back through.
The calves at the sale barn will have been exposed to practically everything. If they are a week old and have had clostrums, they are usually okay.
I have bought a few that were a bit too old. I have learned to let them get extremely hungry, put the nurse cow in a nurse crate, and then crowd them in to her in the pen.
The beef calves cost more that dairy bull calves. They sell for significantly more later tho. More profit. That has been my experience.
As far as "making it work", if you are using nurse cows and have the right facility, it is hard not to make money at it.
Bottle feeding is a different story.
backhoeboogie":2omm9jys said:
You should heed this fellers advice, he knows of what he speaks. Here is some more top secret advice, stay away from baby calves if profit is a concern. It seems a cheap way in but it will swallow you. Suck it up and get a couple cows.
Backhoe I have read many of your replies and you do seem to be a wealth of knowledge and i hope no one ticks you off so that you will not want to participate but I think your idea of the beef calves sounds great. So please give me further guidance, So forgive me but I am green and just learning so help me get this straight I will have the nurse cow keep her fed and happy with grazing, Hay and feed (What is the best particular feed)? Then on to the calve purchase I want them 1 week or less and make sure that they have had the colostrum which i assume is info that the auctioneer gives or who should you ask or is it all in the looks of the calve? then pen them together in a crate for how long just. Thanks I am sure I will have more to ask but I was not born or raised around cattle just over the past few years have i been considering them. With cd rates on my kids college fund laughable i am looking for a little more future return then the 0.62 per thousand a month. Thanks
Scroote, I am seeing how you would be right and this whole thing might flop for me but I am just searching for a few ways to diversify my income with just a few acres and i would much rather invest my future in my own work than trusting other investors to do it for me.
alisonb
Well-known member
Yes, you can make a profit. It will not make you rich and you will find that you have very little free time available. Here are a couple of factors to consider -
Do you have existing facilities?
At what stage do you want to sell animals (feeders or will you finish them)?
What condition/quality are your pastures in?
Will you be feeding milk or milk replacer?
Do you have means to transport them and how far?
I would not buy calves from a sale barn as they have been exposed to too many sicknesses. This is the 'high risk' stage and you will want to minimize health problems. Try and make an agreement with a farmer, purchase calves and take delivery of them three days after birth insuring that they have had their colostrum. You may want to pay a little more for this peace of mind.
Try and get a 'workable' batch together to minimize costs like transport etc. Make note of every expense - don't ignore fixed costs and labor(those human hours are important). Having a good vaccination program, fly and mosquito control plus hygiene control is vital.
Good luck.
Do you have existing facilities?
At what stage do you want to sell animals (feeders or will you finish them)?
What condition/quality are your pastures in?
Will you be feeding milk or milk replacer?
Do you have means to transport them and how far?
I would not buy calves from a sale barn as they have been exposed to too many sicknesses. This is the 'high risk' stage and you will want to minimize health problems. Try and make an agreement with a farmer, purchase calves and take delivery of them three days after birth insuring that they have had their colostrum. You may want to pay a little more for this peace of mind.
Try and get a 'workable' batch together to minimize costs like transport etc. Make note of every expense - don't ignore fixed costs and labor(those human hours are important). Having a good vaccination program, fly and mosquito control plus hygiene control is vital.
Good luck.
Massey135
Well-known member
wow!> YOu can buy em all day long at dairy auctions east of here for 50 bucks. Sounds like there could be some money made in a hot shotcharangusman08":2avndrny said:
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
dont suprise me with the cattle shortageMassey135":1560tw61 said:
Susie David
Well-known member
Experience is the best teacher. Easy to buy a sick or poor doing calf if you don't know what you are doing. Milk replacer is expensive, calves can't do well with the cheep stuff. Think about the time it takes to make a few gallons of milk...we used a propane camp stove and a 5 gallon stock pot and alot of nipple buckets(be sure to design a device to hold them securely to the fence rail, calves have the head butt instinct) and plenty of time. Little buggers like to be fed three and four times a day in the beginning.
Best advise is to buy a good nurse cow or three...or stay away from orphan calves.
Have done the baby calf thing...never again, and I'm on calf watch tonight, first calf heifer has one knocking on the back door, only thing missing is the hooves poking out.
That is my two bits worth...asked for or not.
Dave Mc
Best advise is to buy a good nurse cow or three...or stay away from orphan calves.
Have done the baby calf thing...never again, and I'm on calf watch tonight, first calf heifer has one knocking on the back door, only thing missing is the hooves poking out.
That is my two bits worth...asked for or not.
Dave Mc
James T
Well-known member
dbro":rrjuxtft said:
Hi dbro. There's almost always more to the process than meets eye, so do your homework and think it out. One of the posters to this forum - milkmaid - once ran some economics on calves with nursecows. You might want to contact her. Her post below(from another forum) is old so the economics have probably changed since then.
Question asked of milkmaid:
"MM I'm curious as to why you raise heifer calves with nurse cows vs. just buying milk replacer. Isn't the up keep of the nurse cow a lot more expensive? Do you have the nurse cows raise more than one batch of calves during a lactation?"
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milkmaid
Senior Member Join Date Jun 2006
Location USA
"Good nurse cow on pasture has ZERO feed cost, which means calves have zero feed cost. Nurse cow in the winter costs $20/week, so she has to have four calves on or it would make more sense to use milk replacer. However, with four calves on I'm saving $30 a month, and yes I do put several sets on a cow per lactation. I can wean and graft a new set every 3-5 months."
"I also get better gains on a nurse cow. Calves I weaned yesterday averaged .38lbs/day gain MORE than their contemporaries which received grain (no milk)."
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
dbro":2e45s50o said:
Don't worry about me running off. There's way to many good folks here to let a few bad apples get the best of this place.
You need a mentor. A good mentor. Nurse cows are going to vary in attitude just like the people on this forum. At the same time, they all have something in common. If a nurse cow calves, I let her alone with her calf long enough to ensure the calf gets plenty of clostrums generally for three feedings. I strip out (milk) the rest of the clostrums and freeze it in jugs. If you use that clostrum later, thaw it out in hot water. Never microwave it. Then, when grafting, I put the cow's natural calf and the graft calves together in a pen. I let the cow into the crate in a different pen, then let the calves out into that pen. If you don't have a crate, you can try sponging the cows milk onto the entire body of the graft calf and letting that dry in. It gives the calf the cow's scent and can help. You can also put that cow in a head gate if you have that. When the calves quit nursing, the cow is put back out into the pasture. It is generally something about 15 minutes. This part can start slower but as the calves get older, it gets faster and faster commensurate with their hunger. I let them nurse twice daily and do my very best to keep it on an exact 12 hour interval. Once the calves are good and grafted, I turn them all out to pasture and keep a wary eye on things. It is best to do this on a weekend day for me. The calves will lay up much of that day. When they get up to nurse, I drop my chores and watch from a distance. The cow my butt a calf a time or two but generally they persist and it gets better over time. As long as those calves all nurse, I do not interfere. Usually things wind up with the natural calf in the front and the grafts coming in from the back door.
As far as splits go, when you are at the sale barn, the auctioneer is not going to be much help. It is fast and furious. He's got a job to do. Sit through several sales and strike up conversation with people attending who know. Stay away from the busy buyers. They are there to fill orders and have a job to do also. Listen to the old timers there. When you decided to buy, best thing to do is arrive early and check out the calves. Pairs will be split. The cow will have a number and generally the calves have the same number as the dam. Not always. Talk to someone working the pens. Look the calves over. A dry navel chord still attached can be there as long as 10 days. Could be gone in 5. No sure way to tell but it can be an indicator. Calves muscle structure is an indicator. Tail length in older calves but that won't help what you are doing.
When I am bidding, I work with the spotters in the ring with the calf. I will throw my hand directly at the spotter and he generally yells "YEEPPP" or something similar. His eyes are then scanning the crowd for a higher bid. If someone ups the bid he will point back at me and I will immediately bid again or nod. He'll go back to the crowd. If the price exceeds my likings, I shake my head to wave him off. The next time I bid, I try to go back to the same spotter. If I am buying 30 heifers, he'll know it eventually. He will spot calves coming thru and put two fingers down "split tail" looking at me. I am up in the crowd and nod. If I am not interested in that animal I'll give him a thank you sign for letting me know, and wave him off.
When you are after splits, ask the guys in then pens if the calves have the same number as the dam. Some barns put them one number apart and some give them the same number. Get the prospective calves numbers and go look at the dams. The older and poorer cows are likely the ones to be split. Healthy pairs will probably go as one price. You won't get those calves for put an asterisk or some annotation adjacent to their number on your list. The eventually BUYER may split them himself. Those are few and far between but it happens.
Never get caught up in the "games" at the auction. You don't "win" diddly when you make a buy. You have simply made an investment. There's no shame in dragging home an empty trailer.
Sweet feed works. Cubes work. Of course high dollar feeds work too. Usually my feeding to the nurse cow is simply something to entice her to run to the crate or head gate at feeding time. I don't feed her much more than a large coffee can.
Someone else posted info from MilkMaid. She's kind of young. She is a vet student. Don't let that age thing get in your way. MilkMaid is very sharp on this. Msscamp is older and likely just as knowledged about nurse calves and grafting. Neither of these two post a lot in this forum anymore and it is a shame. You can however go back and read through their postings and MM has some sticky postings in the front end of some forums that are useful too. There are many others. Some simply don't get involved with these threads much.
When it comes to bottle feeding in itself, I never use buckets. This goes back to the early 70's experience when Dad ran a bunch of bottle calves and nurse cows over and over. We tried buckets and the calves did not thrive as well. Msscamp has a thorough explanation as to why the bottles work better and I agree totally with that. Others here disagree.
More later if you want it. You can pm me too. Again, the best thing you can do is find someone to help you set it all up - a good mentor.
backhoeboogie
Well-known member
A few times one of my BIL wanted to nurse some calves. I loaned him a wet nurse cow after weaning off the calves. The deal was he would buy the feed and cycle the feedings and I could put a graft calf in with the bunch. This was a cow who could not be turned to pasture with grafts.
I had the cow and the crate(delivered). He did the work and bought a sack of feed about every 5 to 6 days.
It was a win/win situation for both of us. He's got three nice productive cows now out of that deal. I sold that grafted calf for a very nice profit when it was about a 7 weight.
I had the cow and the crate(delivered). He did the work and bought a sack of feed about every 5 to 6 days.
It was a win/win situation for both of us. He's got three nice productive cows now out of that deal. I sold that grafted calf for a very nice profit when it was about a 7 weight.
