coaklnic000
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Hi I was wondering do we know which came first? Indian or European Aurochs. Thanks I really enjoy hearing y'alls thoughts on the history of cattle.
IF they originated in North Africa, as some suppose, I'd speculate their migration reachedcoaklnic000 said:Hi I was wondering do we know which came first? Indian or European Aurochs.
Son of Butch said:IF they originated in North Africa, as some suppose, I'd speculate their migration reachedcoaklnic000 said:Hi I was wondering do we know which came first? Indian or European Aurochs.
Europe before India. But that's just my semi-educated guess.
IMO -
The modern world is better off without them and for all I care can stay where they are; extinct.
Son of Butch said:They went extinct just 4 or 500 years ago, so there are plenty of recorded accounts.
Julius Caesar's 1st hand report after encountering them during Gallic War in 50 bc was so
wild, fearless and aggressive he didn't believe even a young Auroch calf could be domesticated.
They would turn on hunters and hunt them down through the forest... no thank you.
IMO - They were never domesticated, but passed their genes on to cattle by bulls mating with cows
in domestic herds when they did cross paths. Auroch cows were so wicked they'd kill a bull they
deemed unsuitable rather than mating with them.
While some modern breeds of cattle share segments of dna with Aurochs, there are more breeds
that don't than do.
Son of Butch said:IMO - They were never domesticated, but passed their genes on to cattle by bulls mating with cows
in domestic herds when they did cross paths. Auroch cows were so wicked they'd kill a bull they
deemed unsuitable rather than mating with them.
Son of Butch said:Not that interesting, thought it would link to the actual research rather than public musings.
What you are talking about? 100% of Bos Taurus breeds(European/Asian/North African) breeds can trace their lineage back to Aurochs! European Aurochs are Bos primigenius primigenius and the domesticated european cattle is Bos primigenius taurus(aka Bos Taurus), Zebu cattle can trace their lineage to the Indian Aurochs(Bos primigenius namadicus).Son of Butch said:While some modern breeds of cattle share segments of dna with Aurochs, there are more breeds
that don't than do.
gaurus said:What you are talking about? 100% of Bos Taurus breeds(European/Asian/North African) breeds can trace their lineage back to Aurochs! European Aurochs are Bos primigenius primigenius and the domesticated european cattle is Bos primigenius taurus(aka Bos Taurus), Zebu cattle can trace their lineage to the Indian Aurochs(Bos primigenius namadicus).Son of Butch said:While some modern breeds of cattle share segments of dna with Aurochs, there are more breeds
that don't than do.
Your post is really out of line and makes no sense. If domestic cattle share only segments of DNA with Aurochs, where the be nice do they get the rest from? Aliens? Cause sure as be nice ain't with other wild bovine(Yak,bison,Gaurus).
Bright Raven said:Most evolutionary biologist agree with you.
gaurus said:Bright Raven said:Most evolutionary biologist agree with you.
I did an extensive edit on my previous post, you may want to check it out.
Bright Raven said:Your thoughts follow the mainstream thinking. What Butch is saying is that the auroch DNA in domestic cattle resulted from wild Aurochs interbreeding with domestic cattle in the pasture. Thus, he assumes either Devine creation of domestic cattle or that they originated from one of the other wild cattle species. He would have to address that.
gaurus said:Bright Raven said:Your thoughts follow the mainstream thinking. What Butch is saying is that the auroch DNA in domestic cattle resulted from wild Aurochs interbreeding with domestic cattle in the pasture. Thus, he assumes either Devine creation of domestic cattle or that they originated from one of the other wild cattle species. He would have to address that.
I think he must be referencing recent data about British Auroch Genome found on current British domestic cattle: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4620633/
An excerpt from the research: "The data in hand have revealed that British aurochs significantly contributed to the genetic makeup of modern British and Irish cattle."
But this is also on the research: "However, it reports the genome of a single British animal, which lived about 4000 years after aurochs were first domesticated in the Fertile Crescent. Complete genome sequencing of early Neolithic aurochs from this region will be crucial for unraveling the genetic foundation of cattle domestication."
So the genome sequenced that was used for comparison with domestic British cattle was of a single British Auroch speciment much younger than the Wild Aurochs from the middle east that were eventually domesticated about 10,000 years ago.. Mind you a very small percentage of those Middle Eastern Aurochs were domesticated(some say as few as 80 cows are the ancestors of all the domestic cattle that followed) so it's more than expected that their genome will not match 100%. But there should be no question that the Wild Aurochs are the ancestors of modern european cattle, more precisely northen, british and northern continental breeds(a blend of mostly middle eastern Aurochs/Domestic Cattle with input from local European Aurochs). Iberian cattle breeds and Italian breeds have some input of Bos Indicus(minor but detectable by genetic sequencing) .