Antibiotics and Livestock

[greybeard]

The problem is there are the real dumb hillbillies who don't care much about their stock, don't educate themselves about the drugs/antibiotics, etc that give all the small producers a bad name. I'm talking about the type of people who have 1 of everything.. goat, pig, emu, alpaca, cow, horse, donkey all running together, nothing is ever bred or productive, and the neighbors are lucky if the fences are maintained. The only things they have more than one of is wrecks in the yard, broke down appliances on the front porch, dogs and cats!

Hey--I know that place--it has a big fancy steel gate and an "El Rancho Grand'e sign in the front, with 1 wire electric fence hooked to the gateway.

 

[larryshoat]

I would love to have a check for all the cattle that could have been saved with another five days of antibiotic treatment. All too often sick cattle are treated too late and for an insufficient amount of time, thus the benefit of products like Draxin, Zuprevo, and Zactran. By design these products treat for an extended time increasing the likelihood for success. We're not using too much antibiotic, we're not using enough, we're not using too many vaccines, we're not using enough, we're not treating too many cattle, we're treating too few too late.


Larry

 

[Commercialfarmer]

#$%$%$%@#@@ #@!$$#@#@#$@#%$^# Just got through typing a thesis on this topic and CT ate my post again for taking too long. Arrgggg!

The cliff note version, sorta.

FDA is a political entity. See EPA vs Australia's claims on carbon causing global warming that has not been proven, and then see NASA and NOAA falsifying previously recorded hard data to fit this administrations story here: http://www.naturalnews.com/045808_globa ... _noaa.html

NOAA quietly revises website after getting caught in global warming lie, admitting 1936 was hotter than 2012

or here: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government ... Data-AGAIN

The statistic is BS.

Congress mandated in 2008 that all producers of food-animal antibiotics must disclose annual sales figures and directed the FDA to publish summaries of the information. The first of these reports was released on Dec. 9, 2010. Congress did not, however, specify how the FDA was to present the data. Citing the need to protect confidential business data, the agency chose not to report the figures by their labeled use. As a result, it is not possible to distinguish the quantities of drugs used to treat and control disease from those used to promote growth or prevent disease.

The 2008 rule change does not apply to antibiotics for human medical use.

In other words, half of the numbers required to make the percentage provided for antibiotic use is fabricated- it is an estimate without verification. BS statistic is what I would label that.

This article is worth reading: http://www.albertafarmexpress.ca/2014/0 ... ef-cattle/

Ionophores should be labeled differently than antibiotics as there are no ionophore class of medications used in people and there has been no association of ionophores leading to resistance to other classes of antibiotics.

People have a flora that is more specific to them than is shared with food animals. People rub on people, they touch the same door knobs, shake hands, sneeze on each other, exchange money, use public pens, use public restrooms, they are constantly touching each other. Several share hypodermic needles, utilize poorly hygienic tattoo parlors, etc... People spread bacteria to people, far more commonly than animal to human. It is very worth noting that methyl resistant staph is by far an issue in people and extremely rare in other animals, especially food animals.

Knowing that it is primarily people sharing bacteria, the following statistic is important:

Up to 23 percent of the recorded antibiotic use was for infection prevention or had no documented purpose, the study showed.

http://www.healthline.com/health-news/h ... s-100714#1

The issue for prudent use of antibiotic in food animals is more of a concern for me to continue to have effective antibiotics for use in food animals than it is a problem for resistance noted in human counterparts. There are far more antimicrobials in the research pipeline for people, where the money is, than for food animals. Our options will be more limited. What is not prudent is banning the use of medications for false reasoning, this may jeopardize the health of our food supply and that is a REAL, not fictitious concern.

In addition, there are somewhere between 170-190 million non-food producing animals known as pets. Wonder how many of them are utilizing antibiotics attributed to "food animals"? More than you'd think.

As Milkmaid pointed out, yes a large animal will have a larger total volume/weight of antibiotic. And the question also arises as to how much weight would be attributed to what constitutes a dose, or does one antibiotic used more commonly in people have a much lower mg/kg therapeutic dose than a different antibiotic more commonly used in food animals? Such as azithromycin compared to tetracyclines etc...

And if one is truly concerned about resistance of bacteria and not sensationalism, they dang sure would not be using total kg of antibiotics used but would more importantly be looking to verify that animals are receiving therapeutic doses per body weight and that they are receiving them for the full duration of the regimen. Under dosing is a far more likely cause of building resistance than just exposure alone. (edit: Didn't read your post Larry until I wrote this. I agree fully).

Wonder how many food animals are on chronic antibiotic therapy? Wonder how many people or pets?
Wonder how many food animals receive preventative antibiotic therapy? Wonder how many people or pets?

The topic is much deeper than most of the advocates for limiting food animal antibiotic therapy care to discuss. It's easier to throw out misleading and undissected numbers.


For anyone that is bothered by nomenclature, I understand that antimicrobial is a more encompassing term than antibiotic- which is very specific to substances produced by microorganisms that act against another microorganism. And actually antimicrobials would include antivirals, antifungals and antiprotozoals in addition to antibacterials- which would be the most accurate term. But since antibiotics are very commonly used in place of, antibacterials, I figured I would be okay to use the term in such manner here.

 

[boondocks]

Very interesting thoughts expressed. (I did say I wasn't trying to stir things up, though! :)

To the poster who asked why, if AB resistance is such a problem, we are all still here, I'd say: stick around, dude. (And even that ignores that many people HAVE died due to drug resistance). We've only really had antibiotics around 75 years. We've only realized that AB resistance is an issue in the past decade or two. Every year we are seeing new strains of drug-resistant microbes.

Also, look up XDR-TB http://www.who.int/tb/challenges/xdr/faqs/en/

Or MRSA ww.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/mrsa/basics/definition/con-20024479

Or, just go here for a list (by threat level) of all of the illnesses that we are losing the ability to treat, due to AB resistance: http://www.cdc.gov/drugresistance/threa ... df#page=49 (Gonorrhea, anyone?).

Point is, it's a growing issue, deserving of serious thought (in terms of human AND livestock use)...

 

[dixiedrifter]

I will say this.. there have been a time or two when I got an infection and and could not afford to go to the doctor or ER... cow antibiotics work great on people too!

 

[TexasBred]

I will say this.. there have been a time or two when I got an infection and and could not afford to go to the doctor or ER... cow antibiotics work great on people too!

Shot of Bovine B-12 is still good for a hangover too. :lol2: :lol:

 

[Nesikep]

My buddy gave himself a shot of LA200.. said it worked like a charm, I would need to be desperate to try it!

 

[Aaron]

My buddy gave himself a shot of LA200.. said it worked like a charm, I would need to be desperate to try it!

I know some that do that as well. Also been told by those that can't stand the thought of a needle in their leg that Pen LA is much better taken orally mixed with some fruit juice. Gets rid of the sniffles. :roll:

 

[Commercialfarmer]

I will say this.. there have been a time or two when I got an infection and and could not afford to go to the doctor or ER... cow antibiotics work great on people too!

Shot of Bovine B-12 is still good for a hangover too. :lol2: :lol:

A Scottish endocrinologist swore that fruit is the key. If memory serves, his thought process revolves around the enzyme fructose dehydrogenase in the liver, where the fruit provides the fructose.

 

[Dave]

I have a friend who takes half a calf scour pill, crushes it, and mixes with some peanut butter to get it down. He swears by it, says it will cure whatever is ailing you. Gal I know got a small parasite infection. Went to the Doc and paid $89 for a prescription that didn't work. She did a little research and found that this was treated in third world countries with Imovec. She came and got some from me. 1 cc in a shot glass with some juice and she cleared right up.

As for antibiotic resistant strains. How many of these bacteria infect both animals and humans? The human disorders that are becoming resistant are mainly from people not taking the complete dose of the drugs and from people being over prescribed drugs.

 

[M5farm]

I get amoxicillin for fish to take when I need an antibiotic. I have not gotten the courage up enough when I have a sprain to give myself a dose of Dexamethasone. but I know someone who has. I also crush the 1/4 aspirin bolus and take like a bc powder for headaches. the pain meds for the dog yesterday is the exact prescription I have for pain ultram 50

 

[B&M Farms]

I'm sure most antibiotics would be used less if all cow/calf producers would actually vaccinate, castrate and wean their calves before shipping them. Very few people around me actually do this. It stands to reason in my mind, that the stocker and feedlot are going to use more antibiotics on trailer weaned calves with nothing done to them than the ones that have been taken care of and started on feed.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

The premium paid for properly backgrounded calves is a steal. There are plenty of ways to increase overall production in the industry, but changing the industry is another story all together.

 

[TexasBred]

I have a friend who takes half a calf scour pill, crushes it, and mixes with some peanut butter to get it down.

Mercy Dave....doe he have to have a dose of ExLax for the constipation after that??

 

[Nesikep]

The premium paid for properly backgrounded calves is a steal. There are plenty of ways to increase overall production in the industry, but changing the industry is another story all together.

Are you saying there isn't enough of a premium?

 

[Karin]

Changes will come in Canada, before the US. Two changes that are coming down the pipeline in the next 5 years or so here,

- elimination of antibiotics (ionophores) in feed.

If they eliminate ionophores in feed they're just asking for more sick cattle. Unless they're going for a bigger push into grass-finished beef, I can't see how taking out ionophores are doing to do any good for the antibiotic-resistance fear mongering that's going on.

It's just that: fear-mongering. People who haven't a clue think that it's a bad thing that 80% of antibiotics are used in livestock, when they don't realize that exactly what milkmaid pointed out. Folks who buy into this antibiotic-resistance BS think that cows are the size of medium dogs and, on the same token, can't look at the level of usage they encourage and deal with whenever they get an ailment. It's ridiculous.

 

[Bigfoot]

I'm sure most antibiotics would be used less if all cow/calf producers would actually vaccinate, castrate and wean their calves before shipping them. Very few people around me actually do this. It stands to reason in my mind, that the stocker and feedlot are going to use more antibiotics on trailer weaned calves with nothing done to them than the ones that have been taken care of and started on feed.

You are exactly correct. I would add to that we all pay the price for trailer weaned calves.

 

[Aaron]

Changes will come in Canada, before the US. Two changes that are coming down the pipeline in the next 5 years or so here,

- elimination of antibiotics (ionophores) in feed.

If they eliminate ionophores in feed they're just asking for more sick cattle. Unless they're going for a bigger push into grass-finished beef, I can't see how taking out ionophores are doing to do any good for the antibiotic-resistance fear mongering that's going on.

It's just that: fear-mongering. People who haven't a clue think that it's a bad thing that 80% of antibiotics are used in livestock, when they don't realize that exactly what milkmaid pointed out. Folks who buy into this antibiotic-resistance BS think that cows are the size of medium dogs and, on the same token, can't look at the level of usage they encourage and deal with whenever they get an ailment. It's ridiculous.

Your right, but we aren't the majority that set the public policy - and the majority are retarded.

 

[Nesikep]

Karin, you'd be surprised at the push for organic and grass-fed going on here. There's a company called Blue Goose, and they've bought up about 8-10 BIG ranches in the area, They must have very deep pockets! I'd estimate that with their current acreage they're looking at 10,000 head or better.

I got a taste of how ignorant city people are on youtube yesterday when I saw some (6) guys pulling on a *big* breech birth Holstein to get him out, and just about every comment was "They shouldn't have interfered with nature" I just had to leave a comment to set the record straight and tell them to ****

 

[Commercialfarmer]

The premium paid for properly backgrounded calves is a steal. There are plenty of ways to increase overall production in the industry, but changing the industry is another story all together.

Are you saying there isn't enough of a premium?

I think when bought right, it pays in spades. Train wrecks in feed lots and stocker operations are just all to frequent. Medications and time are expensive enough, but when you add in a higher death rate and loss of production from inadequately prepared calves, it really starts impacting the bottom line.

To me, there is a significant value to buying calves straight off a single farm, that have been vaccinated appropriately, weaned (not stressed and not exposed to hundreds of other stressed out and disease carrying cattle) and are prepared to go to work.