another tetanus quandry

[Hippie Rancher]

range cattle that we don't have the ability to do monthly vaccinations on. started banding a few years ago (the help, I prefer to cut but want to keep the help happy). want to give antitoxin at time of banding but it is never available or only at TS for horsey people at $17/dose. question: is it worth giving toxoid only once at time of banding or am I wasting that money? seems to really only develop immunity a couple weeks after second shot which just isn't going to happen here.

tetanus refresher: antitoxin - for unvaccinated or unknown status at time of injury (or to treat known case)
toxoid - for vaccinating against possible infection, needs two doses a month apart, should be given BEFORE any injury or surgery

 

[puzzled in oregon]

How long lasting is the anti-toxin ?

 

[Hippie Rancher]

How long lasting is the anti-toxin ?

I think it only really lasts 2 or 3 weeks. which in itself isn't really long enough if it is supposed to protect after the sack drops off. ours seem to stay on a month.

 

[kenny thomas]

It lasts 14 days according to the label. I can get it at Rural King for sbout $5 a dose.
If your gonna band do it when they are born.

 

[wbvs58]

How many have you lost to tetanus after banding?

Ken

 

[Newwell@2015]

I always did them at birth never an issue
Any older with a knife no problems
Once I bought some from a friend 600 lbs and hot weather he always waited till weaning or later to band his calves
2 of them got tetanus and died the vet said the infection can’t drain and if the band is not tight enough it will circulate back into the body. they are better cut with a knife even in summer. From then on I cut everyone with a knife or left them intact.never want to see that again it was gruesome and miserable for the animal. I put them down just to relieve the suffering

 

[4hfarms]

Always band within the first couple weeks. I dont have facilities in each pasture so I wait until the rotation allows me to catch em in the coral so I can separate them from mama. Never an issue.

 

[farmerjan]

We buy and band bigger calves... 3-600 lbs. Use the callicrate bander and it will crank it down tight... They get a 1 shot of tetanus toxoid at banding... then we keep them around the barn for a few days, and see if they are "cold" to the touch... and then they go out.
I have been told by a vet that it is good to give BOTH a toxoid and an Antitoxin... it covers the first 2 weeks while the toxoid helps to build the immunity... .
But we do not give them the toxoid at 2 doses a month apart... they are long gone out somewhere by then.
The Callicrate bander instructions says 1 shot of tetanus toxoid at banding and we have done it that way for many years. Right or wrong...
They also get 7 or 8 way black leg at that time...

 

[farmerjan]

It lasts 14 days according to the label. I can get it at Rural King for sbout $5 a dose.
If your gonna band do it when they are born.

@kenny thomas , did your home area get hit very hard from "Helene" ???? Keep hearing about the devastation in the southwest part of Va bordering TN and KY.....Bristol area....

 

[Hippie Rancher]

It lasts 14 days according to the label. I can get it at Rural King for sbout $5 a dose.
If your gonna band do it when they are born.

I searched all morning and finally found some at $10/dose, crazy. I talked to someone at Colorado Serum and they were no help at all, just out of stock and more on the way. eventually. I have had it on back order from two different places for MONTHS.

this was all originally a horse issue, some kind of hepatitis related to an equine parvovirus and now needing "clean" and tested donor horses but at least 50% have antibodies for it. started back in 2021 from what I could find out. the Colorado Serum lady said they weren't even using horses now, so maybe some genetically modified organism in a lab but they need to scale up!!!

 

[gcreekrch]

I do the bulls I buy with tetanus when I band. The only one I have lost to tetanus didn’t get the vaccine.

 

[kenny thomas]

@kenny thomas , did your home area get hit very hard from "Helene" ???? Keep hearing about the devastation in the southwest part of Va bordering TN and KY.....Bristol area....

It seems its just east of me is where the bad damage is. Hogfarmer10 is right in it. He is ok but im sure lost a lot of his crops.
I have been helping out in Florida but going to Bainbridge Georgia today. No idea how much damage i have but i hear its not terrible.

 

[cowman82]

here is some for 66 bucks for 50 rounds.

https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=29DB1E21-5493-499B-B5E4-0BBF426138F1

 

[kenny thomas]

here is some for 66 bucks for 50 rounds.

https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=29DB1E21-5493-499B-B5E4-0BBF426138F1

That is tetnus toxin which has to be repeated in 3 weeks. But thats a good price on it.

 

[cowman82]

That is tetnus toxin which has to be repeated in 3 weeks. But thats a good price on it.

i've never gave anything a 2nd dose of it.

 

[kenny thomas]

i've never gave anything a 2nd dose of it.

I understand that and lots of people don't. The tests i have seen actually shows most of the immunity comes from the booster dose.

 

[chaded]

There really doesn’t seem to be a consensus on this. Even among vets. I remember when I got my first herd and had a bull calf I wanted to band and I was standing in the vets office listening to the vet and her husband (who is a cattle guy) debate this. I didn’t leave with any clearer answer then when I went in. Lol.

I have banded at birth up to several months with nothing and never had had the slightest problem let alone one die. Haven’t heard of anyone else around here having problems either.

 

[Lucky_P]

Lack of concensus... naw... vets have just come to the realization that many producers are not gonna give that second dose, so they've quit pushing for it.
Studies have shown detectible anti-tetanus antibodies at 25 days post injection. Booster dose administered 3 weeks or so after the initial dose will - as a booster is intended to do - push antibody levels much higher.
While I've seen a couple of baby calves with tetanus subsequent to banding, over a 40 yr vet career, I'd hazard a guess that the incidence among that population of millions of baby calves banded is really low.
That said, I've seen way more trainwrecks in bigger bulls banded. If you're giving a bacterin/toxoid at the time of band application, the race is on.... can the animal develop a protective response before C.tetani spores germinate and begin producing tetanus toxin? I've seen a bunch that lost the race.

First case of tetanus I ever saw was in one of my very own calves, about a 400-pounder that I knife-cut. Found him 'sawhorsed' out in the pasture 2 weeks later. So... be aware that castration by knife isn't 100% without some issues, even if you disregard the occasional calf that bleeds out (internally or externally).

 

[puzzled in oregon]

So in the ideal world calves, lambs etc. would get both doses 4 weeks prior to banding or cutting.
Most all of what I have seen get one shot the day of the surgery, but I don't know for sure if it was
the toxoid or anti-toxin.
The tetanus shot given to people is good for ten years, but animals require annual boosters.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

Lack of concensus... naw... vets have just come to the realization that many producers are not gonna give that second dose, so they've quit pushing for it.
Studies have shown detectible anti-tetanus antibodies at 25 days post injection. Booster dose administered 3 weeks or so after the initial dose will - as a booster is intended to do - push antibody levels much higher.
While I've seen a couple of baby calves with tetanus subsequent to banding, over a 40 yr vet career, I'd hazard a guess that the incidence among that population of millions of baby calves banded is really low.
That said, I've seen way more trainwrecks in bigger bulls banded. If you're giving a bacterin/toxoid at the time of band application, the race is on.... can the animal develop a protective response before C.tetani spores germinate and begin producing tetanus toxin? I've seen a bunch that lost the race.

First case of tetanus I ever saw was in one of my very own calves, about a 400-pounder that I knife-cut. Found him 'sawhorsed' out in the pasture 2 weeks later. So... be aware that castration by knife isn't 100% without some issues, even if you disregard the occasional calf that bleeds out (internally or externally).

was hoping you were still around. I wonder if you have ever seen a case of a tumor like I have on an old cow right now. she showed up about a year ago with this fist-sized growth hanging off her left side behind elbow. tumor looking - rough, kind scabby like a chunk of rotten cauliflower. hanging on a stalk of fur covered skin about the diameter of a little kid's forearm. dangly. didn't see her again until this spring, we were going to put a band on it but STUFF, ya know? anyway she came back in about a week ago and the fur cover stalk is now about an adult woman's forearm size, quite a bit longer - maybe a foot or more?, and the tumor is now bigger than a large head of cauliflower. I have pictures but they are kind of gross. don't know if any would object?

anyway we ended up putting two bands on it and gave the toxoid, will give her the antitoxin when it gets here in a day or two and if she doesn't get out and disappear will re vaccinate in a month or so. I have never seen anything like it. she raised a big heifer calf this year so doesn't really seem to be bothering her, but -CRINGE- we are in some brushy country.