Another big butt

[Keren]

Well Karen when virtually EVERY picture you or the others post is from a show. What are we to think.

and the white cow will remain a mystery

You must have forgotten posts such as this one:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=58848&p=681081&hilit=MG+females#p681081

Plenty of females out in the paddock there. Some from the shows also.

 

[3waycross]

Well Karen when virtually EVERY picture you or the others post is from a show. What are we to think.

and the white cow will remain a mystery

You must have forgotten posts such as this one:

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewto ... es#p681081

Plenty of females out in the paddock there. Some from the shows also.

Keren I really don't want to fight with you about this however you don't seem to understand where I am coming from. These are cattle that you SHOW you SHOW them a LOT they are not JUST cows like the majority of us on here raise. And to be fair when you say they are the cattle you own and the cattle in your paddock you are implying that they are just run of the mill Aussie cattle and you and I both KNOW that's not true.

The truth is MOST of the folks here are not top cattle showers like you are we have some good cattle , some great cattle and some real crap. But we kinda throw them out there and talk about them. I have to be honest with you and the rest of the crew from downunder; lately, and I speak for MYSELF only, ya'll seem to be developing a great big case of MY SHYT DON'T STINK, and for me PERSONALLY it makes reading a lot of your posts difficult at best. Don't get me wrong but once in a while all ya'll could just lighten up a bit.

If we were to follow your logic then we would post pictures of the winner from the NWSS, or the Royal, or Houston that sell off the farm for $20.000 and then sell at auction for $100,000 and act like they are plain ole feedlot steers and that by golly that's about all we have running the country roads of America. I hope this makes some sense cuz I sure don't want to have to beat it to death for one more word.


Make no mistake I KNOW how big an A$$ I can be but that's not my intention with this post. I offer you my hand in peace and say You have made your point and I have said my piece. ENUF

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

In all fairness there is only a couple of us that post and if we show cattle we can't help but only post show cattle. A lot of us don't have commercial herds, and the studs aren't massive seed stock studs either. We post pics of shows because that's what we do. Same as their are people from the US that post show cattle because that's what they do. Take for example Jeanne.

Colin has some commercials and he's 'getting there' to posting. Kerens MG bulls almost all go to commercial operations for AUD$2000+ a bull, and as well as showing the herd matriarchs, I think that's what she meant. All my steers I post come from commercial operations like yours and I feed them up for show. I don't even have any land of my own. As far as I know Carla (Killala) only has a small stud. And Jane (Loch Valley) isn't a big time producer either. And that pretty much consists of the main posters.

A lot of this arguing has happened because we feel like we're being attacked lately as a country, not as individuals as it should be. If someone annoys you, don't have a go at where they're from, have a go at that person. In one of my posts someone had a go at me because I called them 'mate.' When there's only a couple of 'us' and a lot of 'you' and you guys seem to be having a go of course we're going to get testy and defensive. We've got people telling us all our beef is good for is grinding. Do you not think this doesn't hurt and we have no pride?

I wish people would just get over all this Aus vs US sh*t because it isn't productive and it isn't helping anyone. When ever someone says something deemed a little high and mighty why does it always have to come down to where we're from? It's stupid. I'm sure you've seen yourself that I don't normally bite unless someone bites first. And I seem to be getting into an awful lot of arguments lately. I come to CT because I enjoy talking about cattle and looking at other peoples. If it makes all of you feel happier when I go home in 2 weeks I'll try and snap a few photos of my partner's family commercial herd. They aren't show cattle at all. And you guys can attack them for all their faults and then maybe everyone will feel better hey? We are producers that show which means we scrutinise a lot. We can't help it, it's what we've known. We would do the same in our own commercial herd. Like you say 3way, enough is enough. Also this isn't just having a go at you so don't feel personally attacked.

 

[3waycross]

What an incredibly well thought out response. Thank you! :tiphat:

 

[alftn]

On this site people come and go...I do find some of the Down under crowd to be abit of showoff/ know it alls....I think they are just young people...and with time will mature...As for the show stock, they are pretty far from reality...

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

On this site people come and go...I do find some of the Down under crowd to be abit of showoff/ know it alls....I think they are just young people...and with time will mature...As for the show stock, they are pretty far from reality...

I don't think youth has anything to do with it. I don't think the majority of us judge any harsh than some others. We aren't the only people who question how an animal stands or it's growth etc. Someone who is harsh with critiquing is not a show off, just meticulous if you will. We can appreciate Knersie's comments about small detail and we can see that his meticulous eye and critiquing result in him having fantastic cattle. We don't pretend to know things. We openly say we don't understand EPDs and things like that, we might me opinionated but at least we will give reasons and justify as to why we think a certain way. Our show industry isn't like yours alftn, growing up I've seen plenty of commercial animals that are better than some of the stud ones around. The show industry here is not a big money business. We don't sell cows for $100,000. Some people with big money throw it around but on the whole show people are just regular producers. Our show steers sell for reasonable prices. Unplaced or low placed animals tend to go for market price. Grand champions will go for more because the butchers want to hang the ribbons on the wall to attract animals. A large part of what stud cattle are judged on are functionality and how suitable they are for a stud or commercial environment. A massive muscled bull that's slow or can't walk/has leg structure issues won't always win because he isn't seen as functional in a herd, no matter how muscular he is. I don't know about the others but I've always been told to judge cattle on structure, reproductive traits and then muscularity.

EDIT: Just to be clear I'm not saying our commercial cattle are as good as our stud. What I'm saying is the divide isn't that big...

 

[Keren]

I wish people would just get over all this Aus vs US sh*t

me too

As for the show stock, they are pretty far from reality...

For the benefit of alftn I am going to say this one more time ... and it might help to illustrate what Aussie_cowgirl says about the divide between stud and commercial cattle not being as big as it is in US.

Our show stock IS commercial reality. Our bulls, yes even the ones we show, are sold between $1200 and $2000 to commercial farmers. They are sold private treaty in the paddock, usually through an agent, no fancy bull sales. Every year we retain maybe 10% of the heifers, cull 10% and the rest go to commercial farmers for between $600 and $800, some get sold private treaty by agents in the paddock, others we send into the salebarn to sell there. Only a handful of our bull calves are kept intact, the rest are steered and sold either to the salebarn, or direct to abbatoir. They are grown out on grass and hay. Same with the rest of the herd. The show heifers get some grain to tame them down, as a training tool (easier to throw a halter on a heifer with her head in a bucket than chase her round the paddock). Last year we did a clean out, got rid of all the old cows (between 13 and 15 yrs old, a couple were even older). We sent them to the salebarn, figuring they would go as kill cows. They had 6 mth old calves at side and were bred back but we needed to get numbers down because of drought. They ended up going to a commercial property in Qld. We do not make our money from the show cattle - we make it from running the herd as a commercial venture.

Same as the steers I have posted pictures of. They've all come from commercial breeders. I bought them for the normal salebarn price for store cattle, per kg, and after the show I sold them for the normal salebarn price for fat steers, per kg.

The truth is MOST of the folks here are not top cattle showers like you are we have some good cattle , some great cattle and some real crap. But we kinda throw them out there and talk about them.

3way, I understand that, but I dont know that it makes much difference. But if you would prefer it I will stop putting my pictures up, if you feel they are too far removed from what everyone else is posting. I have put my cattle up there for people to scrutinise and criticise - and more often than not no one really bothers to post. Which is disappointing, because I strive to improve my herd as much as possible, and taking other people's opinions into account is as important as my own assessment of the animal. When other people have posted cattle for critique, I think I have always replied in a fair and polite manner, pointing out the strengths and weaknesses of each animal as I see it. There are some I really like (see the simm bull thread as a recent example) and some I dont - but when asked for an opinion I will certainly say if I dont like the animal. However, I dont think I am rude about it like some - please dont tar us all with the same brush.

I have never said nor will I ever say that what I have shown you from our herd, represents all the cattle in Australia; someone else may have said it but it certainly wasnt me and I dont agree with that viewpoint. Again, dont judge all the aussie posters by one aussie poster. What we have in our herd may not represent all commercial cattle in Australia - but make no mistake, they ARE commercial cattle. And we strive to breed the best we can.

A lot of this arguing has happened because we feel like we're being attacked lately as a country, not as individuals as it should be.

I'll second this. The US was brought under fire by a particular poster; none of this cr@p would have come about if that didnt happen; so how about that particular poster getting the confrontation, instead of a generalisation of all Australian posters and all Australian cattle.

 

[Anonymous]

Jeez, I've skipped over most of this thread hijack becauser it is just absolute bull ****.

The majority of the cattle I post, come from LARGE commercial and stud herds. I do also post my own but I myself only have about 30 cows.
The bull in this post, is NOT a show bull. He is a COMMERCIAL bull, which sold to a large and profitable commercial operation based on hills you struggle to get a horse up and down. He was bred and raised on flat, virtually desert country and has had NO PROBLEM whatsoever adapting to his new surroundings.
This bull is typical of the cattle Australian Shorthorn breeders strive to - commercially orientated, productive, versatile cattle.
To say that all we post are 'show' cattle is utter nonsense. The majority of the cattle I see posted on here from the 'great' northern continent would not stand a single season here. Post legged, structurally unsound, funnel-butted, flat muscled, hard doing show cattle which only look good with a ton of hair, glue and feed.

What WE show, are cattloe that perform out in the paddock AS WELL AS in the show ring.

To say the comments on this thread have annoyed me is an understatement. It just plain pisses me off. There are good cattle, and there are bad cattle, everywhere, and to generalise a breed/country type is CRAP (and yes, I know I've done that in this post too- how's it feel?).

I have been extremely lucky to work in a variety of operations and production systems, from flat desert country (six million acres of it), to rolling sand hills where it takes the cattle an extra year to grow out, to fertile hills country.

I've been lucky to work for a number of bull breeders (including overseeing a prominent stud) and see what the commercial producer, whether they be large (3000 head plus) or small (maybe only 30), wants.

I've witnessed the impacts of imported bulls on our breed and others, and give full credit to several Canadian bulls for the contribution to my herd and those I have worked in, as well as the breed on a whole.

I could rant and rave forever, but I know I'm not making much sense right now. I am just so p!ssed at the moment. If you want to attack us, make another thread and name it as such. Don't hijack threads like this and offer criticism which is anything BUT constructive.

(Keren, just read your last post- well put! When I get angry I can't seem to thread sentences together but you do it very well!! )

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

Sorry Carla, the only thing I knew you did for sure was the small stud.

 

[marimus]

We've got people telling us all our beef is good for is grinding. Do you not think this doesn't hurt and we have no pride?

US imports of Australian beef are for grinding. USA produces copious amounts of grainfed prime beef. They don't import it from us. There are shortages of manufacturing grade beef, which they import from us.

From a US perspective, Australian beef is for grinding - whether you get offended or your pride hurt or whatever don't change that.

I for one am thankfull that the US imports our beef at all. :tiphat:

 

[marimus]

The majority of the cattle I see posted on here from the 'great' northern continent would not stand a single season here.

And nor should they. I would hate to think how my cattle would fair in Canada or the US. They probably wouldn't stand a single season.

Sorry to say this, but i would bet your cattle wouldn't fair too well in my paddocks either. But you wouldn't expect that. Unless you have vaccinated them as calves for tick fever, most of them wouldn't live a single season.

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

We've got people telling us all our beef is good for is grinding. Do you not think this doesn't hurt and we have no pride?

US imports of Australian beef are for grinding. USA produces copious amounts of grainfed prime beef. They don't import it from us. There are shortages of manufacturing grade beef, which they import from us.

From a US perspective, Australian beef is for grinding - whether you get offended or your pride hurt or whatever don't change that.

I for one am thankfull that the US imports our beef at all. :tiphat:

I know this. If you had seen where this reference would come from you would understand WHY it was offensive. There's a difference between saying that the US imports our beef for grinding and saying the only thing our beef is good for is grinding. Take one of the other threads, keren posted a picture of a Square Meater and a comment was "Looks like a good source of low grade commercial grinding meat for export."

Please don't talk to me like I'm stupid without understanding what I was referring to.

EDIT: Also, your station cattle might be suited to the ground grade market. But if I spend money on genestar testing and breed to produce high quality beef it is NOT for ground quality export.

 

[marimus]

EDIT: Also, your station cattle might be suited to the ground grade market. But if I spend money on genestar testing and breed to produce high quality beef it is NOT for ground quality export.

Well if it is high quality beef then its NOT going to the US market is it, whether you test its genes or otherwise when you've sold a beast you think it all ends up in the finest restaurants and not hamburgers?

On this site people come and go...I do find some of the Down under crowd to be abit of showoff/ know it alls....I think they are just young people...and with time will mature...As for the show stock, they are pretty far from reality...

Thanks aussie_cowgirl for proving alftn wrong :roll:

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

Oh grow up and stop being so high and mighty. I was saying that if you put money and effort into making sure your product is high grade then you will get offended if someone says all your country produces is low grade grinding beef. Just because you don't doesn't make me a show off or a know it all. Means I give a damn about my product.

You know I don't even care if you think I am a show off or a know it all. I made my point earlier on in the thread and that's all I wanted to do. You weren't involved in this and you've come in and started pointing the finger from your high horse. Go do what ever you were doing and butt out.

Edit: I didn't have to prove alftn right because you already did

 

[marimus]

You weren't involved in this and you've come in and started pointing the finger from your high horse. Go do what ever you were doing and butt out.

Edit: I didn't have to prove alftn right because you already did

Mabey you would like to read my post again sometime, then tell me who I was pointing fingers at :help:

As for altfn, I think you might have missed his meaning.

Sorry to offend you aussie_cowgirl, its not what I intended.

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

You weren't involved in this and you've come in and started pointing the finger from your high horse. Go do what ever you were doing and butt out.

Edit: I didn't have to prove alftn right because you already did

Mabey you would like to read my post again sometime, then tell me who I was pointing fingers at :help:

As for altfn, I think you might have missed his meaning.

Sorry to offend you aussie_cowgirl, its not what I intended.

Apology accepted and I'm sorry you probably got some uncalled for aggression. It's just an on going thing that I'm so sick of. Hopefully it's all over soon and I can go back to looking at cows :frowns:

 

[Keren]

LOL I leave this post for half a day, and now its gone from US vs Aus to Qld vs WA

roflmao

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

Come on we all know WA is superior We're just so far away you guys can't tell... 8)

 

[3waycross]

The majority of the cattle I see posted on here from the 'great' northern continent would not stand a single season here. Post legged, structurally unsound, funnel-butted, flat muscled, hard doing show cattle which only look good with a ton of hair, glue and feed.

Well there you have it. I rest MY case.



To say the comments on this thread have annoyed me is an understatement. It just plain be nice me off. There are good cattle, and there are bad cattle, everywhere, and to generalise a breed/country type is CRAP (and yes, I know I've done that in this post too- how's it feel?).

and now you have just done it again.

 

[Keren]

I'll second this. The US was brought under fire by a particular poster; none of this cr@p would have come about if that didnt happen; so how about that particular poster getting the confrontation, instead of a generalisation of all Australian posters and all Australian cattle.

Ok so maybe I need to revise that statement to make it two Australian posters ... :roll: