Anaphylactic sHOCK

[Rayneht]

We just treated feeder calves today. The advice we got was to give each calf a dose of Max 200. The last one we did, was losing some weight. We also wormed with a pour on wormer. Within 10 min. the steer was dead! Could this have been anaphylactic shock? We did administer all the Max 200 in the same site. Gave him 20cc's. weight was 536lbs. This was a feeder calf raised by my daughter so he had vaccines in August. Any ideas?

 

[TheBullLady]

I can't imagine it would be anaphylactic shock. The only one I"ve lost to that in 20 years was after being vaccinated and bangs vaccinated at 10 months old. She didn't die that quickly.

 

[Gale Seddon]

I hope someone who knows what could have happened will respond to your question. I have never heard of Max 200. What illness were they being treated for?

 

[MrGale]

that would depend on what the symptoms were when it died. if it died in 10 minutes, anaphalactic shock is a real possibility....how are the rest of the calves? if they were dosed the same, and they are all ok, it could be an untoward reaction of that one calf. a post mortem might be an idea.

 

[Rayneht]

Every animal was treated the same - although th dosage varied with weight. The steer staggard after leaving the headgate. Before we treat again, we will have epinephrine on hand. I might think about getting it looked at - just to be sure. Thanks.

 

[msscamp]

Every animal was treated the same - although th dosage varied with weight. The steer staggard after leaving the headgate. Before we treat again, we will have epinephrine on hand. I might think about getting it looked at - just to be sure. Thanks.

Even if you had had epinephrine on hand, how were you planning on getting it into this steer once he was released from the headgate? Are you going to let every animal stand in the headgate for an extra 10 minutes to see if they have a reaction? I could very well be wrong on this, but I believe that once an animal actually goes down from this type of reaction it's usually too late. There is also the factor that this might not have been anaphylatic shock, so the epinephrine would not have been much help. I admire that you're willing to go to these lengths to take care of your animals, but I'm not sure it's very practical. Just something to think about.

 

[preston39]

Ray...,
Was this calf chewing the mouth as he left the gate? Did he show signs of foaming at the mouth? Could you hear his breathing...was it labored...heavy...head moving as he was breathing? Was his breathing deep or shallow? Was he staggering before he fell down? Was he wobbly...did he leave the shute running...walking? Was he trembling before falling down? Some of these details will help.

 

[CWT Angus]

Would have been interesting to have a post mortem done. I had a 6 yo cow walk out of the trimming chute this spring & drop dead about 3 minutes later. Not a pretty sight. The vet found she had a heart attack as there were old lesions on her heart from a calfhood ilness. Just one of those freak things that happens & you would never know until it was too late. Sorry to hear about your loss.

 

[Rayneht]

We do have a second holding pen where the steers go after they come out of the headgate, before they are turned out to the feedlot but, I never thought about how we would administer meds out of the headgate. This steer was a show steer so we might have been able to help in time, but most of the steers are not. This is a great forum. Thanks for all your help.

 

[jgn]

Could you have possibly hit a vein and accidently given the meds IV.

 

[Beefy]

Could you have possibly hit a vein and accidently given the meds IV.

my thoughts too. staggering..collapse..

 

[GMN]

Maybe when you gave the injection, you had a air bubble in the syringe, and did hit a vein. This happened to my neighbor once, so she thought, only thing that made sense since her animal died within minutes also, after an injection. Just a thought.

GMN

 

[KNERSIE]

maybe you've hit a vein and injected an air bubble into the vein. You know how pumps (heart) work when there is air in the system....

 

[feelnrite]

If you get epinephrine in the vein at a dose of 1cc per 100 lbs you can save them. They wont have to be restrained because they will be weak or down. There is a short period there where they can be treated and if they get the drug IV there will be a chance for them.

 

[milkmaid]

I'm going to guess that "Max 200" refers to one of the generic versions of LA200, aka oxytetracycline 200. It's OK to give IV, but if it's given too quickly in the vein it can and will kill them. To the best of my knowledge epinephrine won't do a thing to counteract THIS type of shock as it's cardiac arrest.

As far as air in the vein -- my vet has told me that it is only humans you have to worry about getting air in the veins. Cows don't have that problem. I've run quite a few IV's with air in the lines and haven't lost a cow yet.

 

[Beefy]

I'm going to guess that "Max 200" refers to one of the generic versions of LA200, aka oxytetracycline 200. It's OK to give IV, but if it's given too quickly in the vein it can and will kill them. To the best of my knowledge epinephrine won't do a thing to counteract THIS type of shock as it's cardiac arrest.

As far as air in the vein -- my vet has told me that it is only humans you have to worry about getting air in the veins. Cows don't have that problem. I've run quite a few IV's with air in the lines and haven't lost a cow yet.

i was just about to ask if anybody knew what happened to that girl, Milkmaid. Ive always been taught that you cant hurt a horse with air in the veins but you can cows. but i dont really know.

I saw a Brangus cow go down in a chute from LA200 in the vein and die. it was given quickly. man was that an ordeal.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I'm surprised that noone addressed the 20cc in one location. May not kill them, but not recommended, I'm sure. Check label.

 

[Vicky the vet]

Just to clarify, you can kill any animal including humans with a sufficient quantity of air in the vein or artery. The quantity required varies by species. It's called an air embolus and can be fatal.

 

[preston39]

I'm going to guess that "Max 200" refers to one of the generic versions of LA200, aka oxytetracycline 200. It's OK to give IV, but if it's given too quickly in the vein it can and will kill them. To the best of my knowledge epinephrine won't do a thing to counteract THIS type of shock as it's cardiac arrest.

As far as air in the vein -- my vet has told me that it is only humans you have to worry about getting air in the veins. Cows don't have that problem. I've run quite a few IV's with air in the lines and haven't lost a cow yet.

======
you are sure taking a chance. See the following..and others;

http://www.pfizerah.com/health.asp?coun ... ype=3&sec=

 

[milkmaid]

I'm going to guess that "Max 200" refers to one of the generic versions of LA200, aka oxytetracycline 200. It's OK to give IV, but if it's given too quickly in the vein it can and will kill them. To the best of my knowledge epinephrine won't do a thing to counteract THIS type of shock as it's cardiac arrest.

As far as air in the vein -- my vet has told me that it is only humans you have to worry about getting air in the veins. Cows don't have that problem. I've run quite a few IV's with air in the lines and haven't lost a cow yet.

======
you are sure taking a chance. See the following..and others;

http://www.pfizerah.com/health.asp?coun ... ype=3&sec=

Well, not like I do it deliberately. :lol:

I won't give oxytet IV as I'm just not comfortable with that (yet), but I've watched my vet give it IV without problems, and relatively quickly, too.

Beefy -- I'm around, just not as much as I used to be. Been busy in school. 54 days until I'm back home with the cows.