calf went into shock??

[hopalong]

banded some bottle calves saterday.
lacking help i had a granddaughter give me a hand, i done the holding while she gave it the shot and banded and added ear tags.
done the first one and went on about our job, after a few minutes noticed the first one slobbering
and head hanging down and breathing very hard, then he fell down and layed in a simi correct position, so we went on about doing the rest of them,
checked him a little latter and he was streached out flat and eyes were glazed over.
i tried to get hm to take some water but he just lay there breathing hard, checked for abnormal swelling in the area of the tetnus shot nad zip zulch out of the norm.
checked the scrotal sack and only one nut! cut off band and it almost immiediatly started acting and looking better, with in a couple of minutes it was on its feet and acting like nothing had ever been wrong, even eating its 2 quarts of milk as normal.
Never seen anything like it before and was wondering if anyone else had.
is it possible that somehow we had gotten a cord twisted and pinched a nerve of some kind or what.?
just looking for some kind of answer for future reference, as this is my first experence in banding as opposed to cutting.

 

[cfpinz]

Never seen one do that as a result of being banded but how would you feel if someone put a band on...?

 

[rockridgecattle]

what were the shots....anaphlatic shock...epinephrine...now

 

[larryshoat]

Probably the tetanus . As RR said epinephrine .Always keep a bottle handy .How many more did she leave one nut in ?

Larry

 

[hopalong]

only the one!!!
if it was a reaction to the anti toxin why did the removal of the band cause such an drastic turn around?
i cannot and will not accept a reacrion to the anti toxin as a cause to the problem!!
it was like less than a minute after the removal of the band that the calf started to show improvement in both attitude and breathing! that in itself takes me away from the reaction theroy.
milkmaid?? vicky the vet??
am intersted in thoughts that are more factual

 

[larryshoat]

only the one!!!
if it was a reaction to the anti toxin why did the removal of the band cause such an drastic turn around?
i cannot and will not accept a reacrion to the anti toxin as a cause to the problem!!
it was like less than a minute after the removal of the band that the calf started to show improvement in both attitude and breathing! that in itself takes me away from the reaction theroy.
milkmaid?? vicky the vet??
am intersted in thoughts that are more factual

If you want factual information try reading the label on the anti toxin . Tells all about it .

Larry

 

[milkmaid]

Heard a statement in psych class the other day... correlation does not equal causation.

In other words, the fact that the calf recovered after removing the band does not necessarily mean the band caused the problem. If a calf has a mild case of anaphylectic (sp, LOL) shock due to meds of some sort, most will recover within about 10 minutes. Had a heifer drop on me awhile back and didn't have epinephrine on hand. Stressful few minutes but she was back on her feet about 5-10 minutes later. (I always carry epinephrine now when giving anything!)

I've heard it claimed that folks have noticed more reactions to clostridium vaccines than any other... tetanus falls into that catagory as it's a clostridium.

Another thought - some bull calves are wusses. A combination of a mild reaction to the tetanus vaccine and the pain from banding may have put him flat out on the ground, and by the time you cut the band off, the pain was subsiding and his system was stabilizing after the inital shock of the vaccine. Not surprising he got back to his feet soon after. It could have appeared to be caused by the application of the band and solved by the removal of the band, when I'd wager 95% of what you saw was a result of the vaccine.

My thoughts anyway. (FWIW, Vicky hasn't been online in months. I have a PM still sitting in my outbox for her whenever she logs on again, LOL.)

 

[rockridgecattle]

as well we had a calf go into shock with spring vaccinations. epi helped. As MM stated, we never give any shots with out it on hand...never know
Vet told us to keep him quiet for a few hours after the experience.
As with humans, they can re react in a few hours after recieving an epi. shot

 

[hopalong]

thanks all who reasponded
talked to my vet a little few minutes ago and he said that he doubted the anaphlatic shock factor due to the rapid response to the band removal and the lack of epinephrine usage
he felt that there was a good possiblility that she may have had 2 in hand that one may have gotten away just as she released the band and the band caught just part of the nut. causing the band to pinch just a little part of and cause a nerve reaction.
he mentioned the nerve but i missed the name of it!
he also stated that the quick response to feed was another reason he doubted the shock factor.
any way thanks for all your input the calf is doing fine too all 4 bottles today and wanted more!

 

[TexasBred]

only the one!!!
if it was a reaction to the anti toxin why did the removal of the band cause such an drastic turn around?
i cannot and will not accept a reacrion to the anti toxin as a cause to the problem!!
it was like less than a minute after the removal of the band that the calf started to show improvement in both attitude and breathing! that in itself takes me away from the reaction theroy.
milkmaid?? vicky the vet??
am intersted in thoughts that are more factual

Anytime you do more than one thing to an animal at one time it's hard to pin point what caused the probelm. What was the time frame for this event? Did the whole scenario take place in 2 minutes, 15 minutes, 30 minutes? I'd be curious to know. Personally I'd band the calf again and see what reaction I got this time. (try to get both seed this time).

 

[hopalong]

rebanded him yesterday with no problems