American hostage Killed

[dun]

My grandaughter goes to turkey a couple of times a year 2 weeks at a wack. That worrys me to death

 

[greybeard]

Probably some more UN backed BS. I'm not into one world rule, or one rule government. I know a young girl that's in Africa, doing humanitarian work. Her family is proud that she's doing it. But both her mom and dad wishes she wouldn't do it. And both parents are nervous wreck and worried to death about her. Her dad has aged 10 years since she's been gone. I sure hope my daughter doesn't put us through what those two folks have gone through.
Some folks don't care to be free. And some folks need and want a leader. And it's not our job as Americans to force it down their throats one way or the other. But I guess some of us know what's best for everyone, might should run for president.

Not for everyone, but for those who chose to go where it is difficult instead of easy, it is a noble endeavor.
I'm pretty sure I too, gave my parents a lot of worry when I enlisted in 1968, but they understood why I did tho I doubt you'd understand why I did that either.

I've been around the world, more than once. Never met a single person that didn't want to be free--not one. If you know one, other than someone who has spent their life in prison and is comfortable with it, PM me their name--or if you know of a nation's people that want to live under tyranny, PM that to me. I don't know of a single one. If you know of a people that don't want to have food, clean water, some kind of basic medical care, basic treatment and some kind of a future, let me know--I'd be very interested in reading about them.

 

[dieselbeef]

we are not a war there..im with highgrit..sorry..but the u.s. has a lot of its own problems we could better work on solving than in a place we aren't wanted..

Jordan responded when one of their soldiers was killed. as they should. and we should as a nation if one of our pilots was killed. journalists and aid workers is another story

the constitution you quoted gb doesn't apply to the planet.

the middle east will never change. its has always been as it is and it likely always will be that way. if you choose of your own will to be in a war zone in a country we are not fighting and you get caught up in it how is it expected of your nation to rescue you

 

[dieselbeef]

Probably some more UN backed BS. I'm not into one world rule, or one rule government. I know a young girl that's in Africa, doing humanitarian work. Her family is proud that she's doing it. But both her mom and dad wishes she wouldn't do it. And both parents are nervous wreck and worried to death about her. Her dad has aged 10 years since she's been gone. I sure hope my daughter doesn't put us through what those two folks have gone through.
Some folks don't care to be free. And some folks need and want a leader. And it's not our job as Americans to force it down their throats one way or the other. But I guess some of us know what's best for everyone, might should run for president.

Not for everyone, but for those who chose to go where it is difficult instead of easy, it is a noble endeavor.
I'm pretty sure I too, gave my parents a lot of worry when I enlisted in 1968, but they understood why I did tho I doubt you'd understand why I did that either.

I've been around the world, more than once. Never met a single person that didn't want to be free--not one. If you know one, other than someone who has spent their life in prison and is comfortable with it, PM me their name--or if you know of a nation's people that want to live under tyranny, PM that to me. I don't know of a single one. If you know of a people that don't want to have food, clean water, some kind of basic medical care, basic treatment and some kind of a future, let me know--I'd be very interested in reading about them.

and theres no other way to get it without the united states getting it for them....so they can waste it..like so far in the mid east has. maybe someone has declared a victory somewhere im not aware of

 

[greybeard]

we are not a war there..im with highgrit..sorry..but the u.s. has a lot of its own problems we could better work on solving than in a place we aren't wanted..

Jordan responded when one of their soldiers was killed. as they should. and we should as a nation if one of our pilots was killed. journalists and aid workers is another story

the constitution you quoted gb doesn't apply to the planet.

the middle east will never change. its has always been as it is and it likely always will be that way. if you choose of your own will to be in a war zone in a country we are not fighting and you get caught up in i,t how is it expected of your nation to rescue you?

You might want to send an email to those US pilots flying strikes into Syria, as well as the ones flying reconnaissance missions. They're evidently not aware we aren't fighting them.
Neither was I. Maybe someone will set the news media and wikipedia to edit their page.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-l ... n_in_Syria

 

[dieselbeef]

militaryis not the same as a journalist or a person there of choice. being there as a humanitarian is noble yes..but just as dumb considering the risks. people there to make a profit should be rescued by the us armed forces too?

 

[greybeard]

You said "that we aren't fighting".
Any other parameters you'd care to change before I answer your question?

 

[dieselbeef]

im pretty sure I also mentioned at war with..we don't hafta agree sir. I appreciate your thoughts esp since you speak from exp and I cannot.

but I did take my son on a b17 tour today.

are you saying that dying as a soldier in the us armed forces is the sam as dying there as a journalist? I have much respect for our troops..not so much for a reporter there making money

 

[TexasBred]

im pretty sure I also mentioned at war with..we don't hafta agree sir. I appreciate your thoughts esp since you speak from exp and I cannot.

but I did take my son on a b17 tour today.

are you saying that dying as a soldier in the us armed forces is the sam as dying there as a journalist? I have much respect for our troops..not so much for a reporter there making money

Excuse GB...it's that time of the month. :lol: :lol: :lol: :mrgreen:

 

[dieselbeef]

hhaha..man its all good discussion..i can understand his point of view but thankfully it isn't everyones..

 

[highgrit]

Greybeard, wasn't the draft still in effect in 1968? I believe that you didn't have a choice, unless you wanted to be a draft dodger. Or you could go to college at Oxford and somehow miss getting drafted, like a well known president did. Just make sure you don't inhale.

 

[dieselbeef]

if one of the pilots in the us led airstrikes today was shot down and beheaded like the journalists...or burned like the Jordanian pilot...well then I suppose a declaration of war would be in order...but if a journalist had become a casualty (not a victim) of the airstrikes then would it be worthy of us declaring war? not to me..its not the same

why hasn't anyone stepped up like the jordans did..the Japanese did nothing im aware of either

 

[greybeard]

Greybeard, wasn't the draft still in effect in 1968? I believe that you didn't have a choice, unless you wanted to be a draft dodger. Or you could go to college at Oxford and somehow miss getting drafted, like a well known president did. Just make sure you don't inhale.

I believe you are mistaken highgrit.
Do you not know how the selective service (draft) system works?
Sure the draft was in effect in 68. But not everyone got drafted not even close. Everyone had to register with selective service when they turned 18, just like they still do today, and once the selective service gets your form, they assigned you a number, and mailed you a little card with your name, address, date of birth and a selective service number. The draft was by lottery. They drew numbers every month--they pick your number, they sent you a notice and you go report to the nearest draft board or induction center--if they didn't draw your #, you didn't have to go. When you hear people speak of burning their 'draft card' they are actually talking about their selective service card. Since we don't have an actual draft anymore, but do still keep a selective service roster, I don't know if they actually send out the cards anymore--just keep the databank somewhere in case the draft does have to suddenly be re-initiated.
No where near every eligible, nonexempt person got called up during Vietnam. All the years Vietnam went on, from 64 thru 1973, there were 26,800,000 draft eligible men in the US. but only 2,215,000 were drafted.
I guess it is a mis-conception that most servicemen serving in Vietnam were draftees. It was only 25%--1/4 of the total in country personell were draftees. And during the same period 8,720,000 Americans did the same thing I did--enlisted all on their own.

Actually I did it a little different. I grew up in the cold war, had relatives that hadn't been home from WW2 and Korea for very long. I knew all about us throwing the N. Koreans and Chinese back across the border from S. Korea. I also, by the time I was 15, knew all about us failing to throw Castro out of Cuba at Bay of Pigs. By the time I was 16, I had already made my mind up I was going to be a Marine come hell or high water, and would probably go to Vietnam. Told my mother that while sitting in front of the TV news one night and she told me "Why, You'll do no such thing!!" I guess she thought that was the end of it but it wasn't for me.
When I was 17 1/2, I went to the Marine recruiters office, got the parental permission form and at school the next day, forged my father's name to it, and took it back to the recruiter and he signed me up. My twin brother knew what I did an ratted me out to our mother and she told daddy and he was fit to be tied that I had forged his name and that I was going to leave school and be a Marine (or anything else). I told him it was too late, that I was already signed up. That didn't hold any water with my father tho. Loaded me up in the truck and off we went to the recruiter's office. "You stay in the truck boy, while I go in here and have a talk with this man". In a little while the recruiter and he came out and called me in. I don't know what was said, but they came to an agreement that my enlistment was a done deal, but the recruiter handed me back that permission slip, said would put me on a hold until I graduated from high school and I would go in as soon as they could do it after that. So, I still had to go down and fill out the selective service form when I turned 18, same day my brother did. When my mother passed away in 1995, and we kids were going thru all the papers and stuff that mothers seem to keep forever, I found that permission slip I had forged. She had kept it all the years along with every letter I had written home. I still have it here in a box, along with those letters.

Even knowing how Vietnam turned out, I'm like most of those who served there--( a poll in 1985 said 90%) I'd do it all again the same way.

 

[greybeard]

Oh, I never checked, but my brother did. There was a way to do it on the internet. Neither of our selective service #s ever got drawn.

 

[dun]

Oh, I never checked, but my brother did. There was a way to do it on the internet. Neither of our selective service #s ever got drawn.

What could you check on the internet?

 

[inyati13]

GreyBeard stated:

Sure the draft was in effect in 68. But not everyone got drafted not even close. Everyone had to register with selective service when they turned 18, just like they still do today, and once the selective service gets your form, they assigned you a number, and mailed you a little card with your name, address, date of birth and a selective service number. The draft was by lottery. They drew numbers every month--they pick your number, they sent you a notice and you go report to the nearest draft board or induction center--if they didn't draw your #, you didn't have to go. When you hear people speak of burning their 'draft card' they are actually talking about their selective service card. Since we don't have an actual draft anymore, but do still keep a selective service roster, I don't know if they actually send out the cards anymore--just keep the databank somewhere in case the draft does have to suddenly be re-initiated.

GB: I want to correct a couple mis-statements/omissions. The draft was not by lottery until 1970 for men born from 1944 to 1950. I was born August 13, 1950. The year I turned 18, I registered with selective service. At that time the lottery was not in effect. I received a selective service card with a number but it was not the lottery number. I applied for and received a "college deferment". That was an annual requirement. In the words of Wikipedia:

On December 1, 1969, the Selective Service System of the United States conducted two lotteries to determine the order of call to military service in the Vietnam War for men born from 1944 to 1950.

The lottery was based on the date of birth. They did not draw numbers every month. They were drawn once for each age group. My age group was in the first lottery drawn on December 1, 1969. I kept my number forever. My number was 307. Whatever number your birthday was drawn on, was your number forever. They took the numbers in succession beginning with the lowest number first. For example, The first number drawn was 258 (September 14), so all registrants with that birthday were assigned lottery number 1, they were the first to go. They never got above the number 195 in my lottery group which was the first "lottery" group.

Again from Wikipedia:

The days of the year (including February 29) were represented by the numbers 1 through 366 written on slips of paper. The slips were placed in separate plastic capsules that were mixed in a shoebox and then dumped into a deep glass jar. Capsules were drawn from the jar one at a time.

I have my original selective service card which pre-dates the "lottery" and I have my lottery number notification. I wanted to find them this morning but was not able to.

GreyBeard, check me on this:
I remember this but to check; Google Draft lottery (1969) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To check the numbers assigned for each date of birth, here it is:

http://www.calledtoservevietnam.com/blo ... ec-1-1969/

PS: Sorry for all the edits. I had some mistakes too. Plus, I could not get the URL for the first reference to work so to pull up that article in Wikipedia, you must google it. It is a good account of the history of the Viet Nam lottery system. BTW: GB, you did a good job but it is significant to recognize that from 1964 to 1970, there was no lottery.

 

[highgrit]

Thanks Greybeard, I didn't know how the draft worked. Everyone made such a big deal about clinton and college, and Bush in the Air Force reserves. And thanks for serving our country, Veterans are a wrath of knowledge and you have plenty.

 

[inyati13]

GB, you are also a 1950. I remember you telling me that in a PM. What was your lottery number? You were in the same group I was. Our numbers were picked on December 1, 1969 but drafting by those numbers did not begin immediately. I remember meeting with my ROTC advisor, Captain Phinney from Georgia. He looked at my transcript of course work and grades for my Freshman and Sophomore years. Looked at me and said something like, "Get your azz out of here." He had been on two tours of Viet Nam and was very candid - did not romanticize or glorify that conflict. He was candid and told me personally, to avoid it with every effort I had. Because my number was 307, I finished my mandatory two years of ROTC and dropped it. I never had to apply for a college deferment after getting such a high number. They drafted as high as 195 so I was still a long ways off from being pulled.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Meanwhile right here in the USA we have old people especially, and a whole slew of other Americans that could use her help. To each their own, and I admire her and all the others that go out of their way to help folks out. But I feel like we need to get our house in order before we start on someone else's. And is it right to put our soldiers in harms way to save a US civilian on someone else's soil? When you go somewhere under a travel advisory, should the USA still be responsible for their safe travels? I've always felt I was responsible for my own safety. And I would hate to think that my negligence caused a hardship, or worse on someone.

I agree and don't give a rats ass about some middle easterner.
We have plenty to do at home.
That is one of problems today we want to stick our nose in every ones business.
I have long been a supporter of out terrorizing the terrorist for each American that dies
we take out 10 million of them.

 

[chippie]

my 2 cents is that our government should have started doing something about ISIS a long time ago instead of talk about it. Every day it grows stronger and stronger and its members walk among us. They just haven't shown their true colors yet.