Age verification

[hillsdown]

How many of the breeders submit info to the Canadian Cattle Identification Angency?I like the idea of the system but it is a pain to submit info especially with dial up.It takes forever.I know alot of your cattle is registered but do you submit the terminal ones?

 

[Bez>]

We have opted out.

Too much paperwork and too little return. All ours go out the front gate to locals.

Like CAIS - or as I call it - the chartered accountant income supplement fund - it sounded like a good idea. No return for us.

Wife is in Gore Bay for the OCA meeting as I write - and I suspect age verification will be one of the topics of discussion.

We were also one of the first 12 beef operations in Canada to be certified under the Quality Starts Here program. Lots of paper and no return - so we have dropped it.

Programs always sound good - but most never seem to deliver the goods.

Bez>

 

[bward]

I do it and its no biggy. I like to keep accurate calf records anyway and its just a matter of adding one more number to the line on the spreadsheet. When I submit the numbers to CCIA, the whole spreadsheet goes. Its not like you have to upload it one calf at a time. 8)

 

[Bez>]

Lots of folks here will not know of this program - so I grabbed some FAQs from the Alberta site - web address included.

I figure when they pay me to enter those - what is it - 15 digit numbers? - I will then do it. To date any premium for age verified beef is not passed on from the packers through the feed lots to the producer.

If you are finding a premium for this I say good on ya'!! Around these parts probably less than 30% of the producers will age verify until forced to do so.

Last year I helped a fellow in north east Alberta - we verified 480 or so calves. It was a very, very long evening - including the disconnection time. Never again.

Note the electronic info below - cannot be sent in by paper. I asked the OCA how many of their farm members were on the internet. Apparently it is less than 50% - makes it difficult to verify.

All of this is the problem and it is discouraging the producer from doing the work - albeit some are - but not in the numbers required to make the system work properly.

Follow the money - that is the only way to get full compliance in my opinion. And the money is not there for most.

For many it is cumbersome and not user friendly - hence the low compliance rates.

Info for those that do not know - came from the Alberta site below:

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department ... l/faq10755

Hope you folks find it an interesting read.

Bez>

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Age verification is the association of animal birth date information with an Animal Identification Number (single tag or tag group). Producers can submit their age information electronically to a centralized database and have it readily available throughout the industry.
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In late 2004 the Canadian Cattle Identification Agency (CCIA) initiated the development of an age verification component in their animal identification database.

Age Verification Process:

1. If animals from British Columbia, Saskatchewan or Manitoba are brought to Alberta to be slaughtered, are these animals required to be age verified?

No, because of the suspension of the mandatory date, it is no longer necessary for animals from out of province to be age verified.

In September 2006, the Alberta government postponed the original target date of April 1, 2007 for mandatory age verification of cattle. Industry support for age verification and significant progress in the number of cattle birthdates registered has enabled flexibility to suspend mandatory age verification initiative.

Although a new target date for mandatory age verification has not been set, all producers are encouraged to continue age verifying all calves born in 2006 and onward, prior to sale or slaughter.

2. Which CCIA tags can be used for slaughter age verification?

Radio Frequency Identification tags (RFID) is the preferred tag for age verification. CCIA policy is that RFID tags are to be used to identify all animals by September 1, 2006.

The CCIA dangle bar code tags can be used to age verify an animal. Animals slaughtered prior to December 31, 2007 can be identified and age verified using a dangle tag. As of January 1, 2008 all animals must be identified with an RFID tag.

3. Where can I go to obtain more information about age verification?

There are three web sites will have questions and answers posted.

a.) Download from CCIA website http://www.canadaid.ca
b.) Ropin' the Web, http://www.agric.gov.ab.ca (click on 'Livestock' and then go to 'Age Verification Information')
c.) Foragebeef.ca (http://www.foragebeef.ca).

Alberta Agriculture contact information: Ag-Info Centre 310–FARM(3276)

CCIA contact information: 1-877-909-2333.

4. What do I need for information to age verify my calves?

Name, address and phone number for personal information as it appears on the website. If in doubt, use the contact letter sent from CCIA in December as the reference.
Your Personal Identification Number (PIN) and a purchased tag are needed to verify your identity. If possible, have the transaction number provided from the birth date registration process.
Individual age and tag numbers for calves or oldest calf age and range of tag numbers used are also needed.

5. What do I do if I am attempting to enter age verification data on line and I am getting disconnected from the application?

Working on line with a dial up connection can cause the application to disconnect. If you are working on a larger file or it is taking you a considerable amount of time to enter data, use the Excel spreadsheet download. Directions on how to use the spreadsheet are also at this website: http://www.canadaid.com/info

6. A farmer or rancher has no computer on the operation. Can he apply to age verify cattle with a written application?

No, all applications must be done on line. However, producers can assign or hire a "third-party" to submit the information on their behalf. Possible options are the local veterinarian, Ag Societies, local Research Associations, or a company for hire. If someone other than the owner is submitting age verification information, a 3rd party release must be signed.

Other options to submit data are to use a computer at a school or public library. You can also consider utilizing a neighbour, or relative who has a computer to enter the data for you.

7. Third Party verifying agents – Who are they and how does it work?

Anybody can act as a 3rd party data entry agent as long as a producer release is signed. Anyone other than a family member is considered to be "third party". To obtain a copy of the release, use the website: http://www.canadaid.com/info

8. Age verification Birth Certificates:

a) How are certificates generated?
Age verification certificates are generated from the data entered on the age verification website.

b) How do I obtain a certificate?
Certificates can be generated off the website as soon as 15 minutes after updating or submitting calf age verification information.
The website is: http://www.clia.livestockid.ca

To generate a certificate, a transaction number from a previous age verification activity, or individual tag number is required. A transaction number generated when calf birth date data is accepted into the database can be used.

Certificates are generated on line - CCIA is not able to provide hard copies to clients.

c) How to update certificates with replacement tag numbers?
When information from a replacement tag is entered into the database, a new certificate can be generated as soon as 15 minutes after the data is entered.

9. How do I get to the CCIA age verification website?

http://www.clia.livestockid.ca provides direct access to the age verification website. The two different addresses on current CCIA brochures indicate a /CTS or /CTLS ending. These are not required to get to the site.

This site can also be accessed through the CCIA's home page at: http://www.canadaid.ca/ and selecting 'Age Verification' on the home page.

10. A family farm has different members of the family purchasing tags for their animals within the main herd. Each person has a personal identification number (PIN). How do these operations resolve the problem of multiple pin numbers for the farm unit?

In December 2005 CCIA sent out letters to producers to inform them of the Producer Identification numbers associated with their operation.

Contact CCIA to combine all personal identification numbers that are part of the operation. They can modify the database to set it up as one "farm" account with multiple users.

 

[hillsdown]

I do it and its no biggy. I like to keep accurate calf records anyway and its just a matter of adding one more number to the line on the spreadsheet. When I submit the numbers to CCIA, the whole spreadsheet goes. Its not like you have to upload it one calf at a time. 8)

What beef software are you using?

 

[bward]

Its actually a 9 digit number to upload as the 124000 prefix will not upload.... I don't know why they have it on the tags if they don't use it. :?:

Bez I agree that the web site is non friendly and at most times maddening. I have had to call them several times to assist an upload, but this year I didn't have any problems.

I agree that the paper work is something we should be paid for doing. At first the feedlots were paying a premium for age verified but I don't think that they are paying a premium now OR giving a discount to non age verified. I would wish to be paid for my service by getting the slaughter information on my cattle back to me. This is something the packers guard or charge an arm and leg for.

Hillsdown, all I ever used for record keeping is xl spread sheet and that is what program that CCIA uses to upload files.

I add extra columns to include cow number, sire, and any weights, and just leave those off when I submit the file.

One tip I have is to buy the RFID tags with consecutive numbers. Then when you enter them you just have to type in the first two numbers and drag the row down and have them all instantly typed with no need to enter them individually.

Because the RFID tag number means nothing to me I link it to the ID tag I give them at birth and then down the road if there is ever a problem, I can identify the calf and the sire and dam from the RFID number.

CCIA people pretty much ignore herd ID tags and they are usually removed and thrown away anyway.

Another thing I suggest is loading your file on to a floppy and taking it to your library if you do not have Broadband internet. I beleive that most rural libraries have the Supernet and it is lightening fast. They usually have XL loaded on to their computers as well in the event you need to make some adjustments to the file. And the phone call to them is toll free.

 

[Aaron]

I did it with last springs yearling bunch and was not impressed. The auctioneer did not announce on the speaker that the cattle were age verified and he still didn't at the most recent sale with other people's cattle. It's another hassle and it's a decoy by bureaucrats and our producer groups (read, ONTARIO CATTLEMEN'S ASSOCIATION) from putting forth real questions and solutions for the real problems that effect the core of the industry. People want to say that they are so impressive by grabbing premiums on cattle because they did this and that and those other things, when in the end, they are just lucky. The next guy down the road might do that and end up still losing the farm. If you think barely surviving in this industry is 'doing a bang-up job' than good for you. I'll go talk to the other guy beside you who thinks your deluded as well.

Bez, I'm glad we agree that the whole QSH program was a crock. I love how all these programs start in Ontario, and to some extent get established with all the nancy-boy subsidizing producers in this province....and then become basically a total flop outside the province.

I took the QSH program and I realized the first day that it would never stay true to it's principles. Two of the key basics was that each animal had to be individually identified and records kept of 'properly administered' drugs. Well, one of the producers, our area's biggest at 450 cows, said that he did neither, no animal is individually identified and he administers his drugs either through an ATV and pole stick method or through a dart gun. But you know what?...he's on the program!...and can slap those silly QSH stickers on each of the fat cattle he sends down to Southern Ontario for slaughter.

 

[rockridgecattle]

LAst year we used the age verified. We were on dial up. We got assistance from an "agent" and then uploaded a completed .csv to the web site. Once i got the hang of it, kind of sort of not user friendly. I still have to do it though for this year.
The Canadian Angus Ass. sends out stickers with the RFID tags and a calving book that has a column for these stickers which has been helpful.
I got a trial version of Cattle Max software and they are looking into making it Age verified friendly I have yet to use it just been to busy to try it out but on the website it looked good. I also think Lionedge software is age verified friendly.
I think if we want to get into the asian markets right now age verified is the best way to prove the age of an animal under 30 months.
It's just one of those necessities of cattle farming since BSE.

 

[randiliana]

We did it last year, and will probably do it again this year. Only because we sell most of our steers in one bunch, and we can send the paperwork with them. Our auction barn (and I think most of the local ones) has given up on the Age Verification sorting. It is an impossible thing for them to do. To not only sort for weight and color, but to then have to sort on the age verification status of the cattle as well. They just don't have the pen space to do this. The only way they will sell as Age Verified, is if they are one (or maybe a couple) owner cattle that are all Age Verified.

Last year they sold age verified pens of graded cattle, the paperwork was a nightmare. If you brought in 100 calves and they went into 50 different pens, the office staff had to photocopy your birth certificates for each pen that your cattle went into. There would be a stack of paperwork with each pen. If 25 people had calves in the pen, then there would be 25 different "birth certificates" that went with the pen. And the truckers/buyers had to haul that stuff with them.

Myself, I didn't have a lot of trouble uploading my birthdates. Last year, I did it all on a spreadsheet, and submitted it that way. The biggest problem I had was that I mixed a number up on one calf, and had to fix that. This year, I should be able to do it from my cow program. I use Ranch Manager, and they are set up to work with the CCIA website. So once I have entered a calf into the program, with all its data, I just have to select the animals that I want to upload. Mind you, I haven't tried it yet, and won't until we RFID tag the heifer calves that we don't keep for replacements. Personally, I don't think I will see anything from Age Verifying these calves, but on the off chance that we could I will do it.

On the subject of the guys that do not have access to a computer and/or are computer illiterate, our vet clinic will send in your age verification stuff if you buy your tags from them and if you give them your birthdate info. They do it for free, so that is what a lot of producers do around here.

 

[dun]

Seems more complicated then it needs to be. We sold a group of calves last year that were all age, source, process verified verifiable by the RFID in their ear.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

IMO, its time for the CCIA to be dissolved and replaced with a private third party. The age verification stuff is complex for most producers to understand, and the lack of an ability to send it in manually is just rediculous.

The CCIA's budget is $12 million a year for 3 million registrations. Thats 4 bucks per animal. There are third party outfits making a good profit charging 50 cents an animal for tracking, age verification, lineage, drug history, etc etc. And this 50 cents INCLUDES the ability to send in hand written paperwork and have it entered.

Its something that we cattlemen should be questioning, since we are losing sales overseas due to insufficient numbers of age verified beef. I am aware of 2 business concerns that lost sales due to an inability to guarantee a steady of age verified beef, and I've read reports from a couple of livestock analysts that verify what those businesses are saying.

I support mandatory age verification, but not in the hands of the CCIA. It needs to be done properly, and not at such an expense to the taxpayers and livestock producers of this country.

Rod

 

[Brandonm2]

Seems more complicated then it needs to be. We sold a group of calves last year that were all age, source, process verified verifiable by the RFID in their ear.

Exactly, the data needs to be actually ON the animal. To expect stockyards to keep a paper on each animal and have that paper travel with the animal and do that times a 1000 animals a week is boarderline ludicrous. We need to get to the point where an animal walks in the ring, the data (age, source, sire, dam, vaccination history, ownership history) appears on a video screen for the buyers use and then the cowboys at the feedlots can read the same data on their scanners when the calf is processed at their site.

 

[hillsdown]

When they scan the rfid tags shouldn't all the info including birth date, wean date ,etc. come up on the screen?Why do certs. have to be printed out for each animal ?

 

[Bez>]

When they scan the rfid tags shouldn't all the info including birth date, wean date ,etc. come up on the screen?Why do certs. have to be printed out for each animal ?

I hate to say this - but:

Because it is policy.

It does not have to make sense - until things are changed, this is the way it will stay - just another reason for the poor compliance rates at this time.

Bez>

 

[bward]

When they scan the rfid tags shouldn't all the info including birth date, wean date ,etc. come up on the screen?Why do certs. have to be printed out for each animal ?

Just because an animal has an RFID tag it doesn't mean it is "age verified" . The RFID tag only traces back to the herd of origin, so unless you actually submit numbers with dates back to CCIA there will be no age verification certificate.

Also, CCIA promises confidentiality, and you can't access info on any numbers on herds other than your own and only what you have submitted. :secret:

 

[hillsdown]

When they scan the rfid tags shouldn't all the info including birth date, wean date ,etc. come up on the screen?Why do certs. have to be printed out for each animal ?

Just because an animal has an RFID tag it doesn't mean it is "age verified" . The RFID tag only traces back to the herd of origin, so unless you actually submit numbers with dates back to CCIA there will be no age verification certificate.

Also, CCIA promises confidentiality, and you can't access info on any numbers on herds other than your own and only what you have submitted. :secret:

That is not the point the point is that when an animal goes through any processing all info submitted should be accessible when the tag is scanned........The whole post is about age verification not RFID tags.

 

[AngusLimoX]

I know alot of your cattle is registered but do you submit the terminal ones?

We submit them all. On dial up.No biggy.

ALX

 

[Victoria]

We do it. Our tag numbers are in order so you don't have to do individual birthdates on the ones sent to auction - just do them as a group and give your calving interval. Doesn't take much time and the sale we sell in pretty much expects it. Out of the 18 consignors there only 3 did not have their animals age verified. It was announced by our auctioneer. With prices the way they are if there is a chance of getting a bit more on a calf I'll do it. Around here if you are on dial-up or don't know how to do it you can give a paper copy to the auction market and they will do your birth certificates for you free of charge. We have always kept birthdates on each calf that is born so it really isn't a big deal.

 

[bward]

That is not the point the point is that when an animal goes through any processing all info submitted should be accessible when the tag is scanned........The whole post is about age verification not RFID tags.

But that would make the program so much more logical and simpler to operate... so unlike our current CCIA.

 

[hillsdown]

So true it's like hiring someone to design a handling system for you who has never worked with cows in their life.I can just imagine what a gong show that would be.

Hey Bward did you guys get your haying done?