ag-exempt

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novatech

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I,m prob. going to get a few people a little upset with this but it isn,t the first time.

I was just wondering why horse ranches, mini donkeys, mini anything else deserve an ag. tax exemption. They are not ag. products, they are for pleasure use. These people are takeng away our ag property, and driveing the real estate prices to the moon. They cause a shortage of hay and feed, or cause the prices to increase. If these people were not getting this exemption maybe property taxes would not be riseing as fast as they are. This exemption is causeing the large ranches to be cut up. So where does this leave the ag. industry in the long term?
 

mwj

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Not any differant than show cattle or purebred herds kept for the tax writeoff :roll:
 
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novatech

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mwj":n5rjdl54 said:
Not any differant than show cattle or purebred herds kept for the tax writeoff :roll:

The genetics of show cattle, in most cases, is past down to commericial operations. They become seedstock. The culls from these operations are sold to purebred and commericial cattle ranches. Cull bulls are often sold to feed lots via auctions.
 

mwj

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I do not think you will find many comercial producers using show cattle genetics! They are a seperate industry to themselves. If cattle that are show bred had to survive and breed under real world conditions it would be a joke. Go to the breeds board and ask what is wrong with the shorthorn breed and you will get an opinion on how good show cattle genetics are :roll:
 
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novatech

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mwj":okc410n1 said:
I do not think you will find many comercial producers using show cattle genetics! They are a seperate industry to themselves. If cattle that are show bred had to survive and breed under real world conditions it would be a joke. Go to the breeds board and ask what is wrong with the shorthorn breed and you will get an opinion on how good show cattle genetics are :roll:

I have regesterd brahman cattle. All of my cows have regestry of renown blood lines. I breed them to a herford bull. this gives me an F1. I sell my F1 Heifers to a commercial cattleman. He breeds them to a char. or angus bull. He then sells his calves as terminal beef to feed lots. What part of this does not deserve an ag exemption?
 

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Just because they aren't eaten doesn't mean they have no ag. use. if you ranch you need horses to work cattle, A atv quad could be used but try move cattle out of heavy bushes, ya need a horse and someone have to raise them .mini cattle if marketed properly definitly ag. exempt. You have to have an open mind. AS far as driving up property prices for hobby type operations money talks.
mwj - I don't know what it is like in the US but most of the bulls i take out to shows end up in the hands of commercial cattlemen. yes i sell the occasional breeder bull but most of them end up in commercial operations. The are competative wining classes,divisions and championships and they are honest placings ,for honest cattle. I would get out of the PB business if what i was showing coudn't work or survive in a real world commercial operation.
 

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I'd sure like a mini Donk, I'd breed him to mini horses and get mini mules and use them for work around the farm. Agriculture is much broader than the beef industry. I'm a huge fan of the beef business but i understand its not the most efficent (far from it). As far as people buying up land that could be used for ranching, good for them. They deserve what they get and what a country we live in. If it is your land they are using eminet domain to turn into hobby ranches i could see how you would be upset but if it isn't then buy it yourself.
 
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novatech

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skcatlman":3uhif2iq said:
Just because they aren't eaten doesn't mean they have no ag. use. if you ranch you need horses to work cattle, A atv quad could be used but try move cattle out of heavy bushes, ya need a horse and someone have to raise them .mini cattle if marketed properly definitly ag. exempt. You have to have an open mind. AS far as driving up property prices for hobby type operations money talks.
mwj - I don't know what it is like in the US but most of the bulls i take out to shows end up in the hands of commercial cattlemen. yes i sell the occasional breeder bull but most of them end up in commercial operations. The are competative wining classes,divisions and championships and they are honest placings ,for honest cattle. I would get out of the PB business if what i was showing coudn't work or survive in a real world commercial operation.

I totally agree if they are ag use exempt them. If they are just pleasure they don,t deserve it. And just what persentage of the horses do you think that is. And its a far stretch of the imagination that mini's are anything more than pets. Take the people that raise them into a slaughter house and give them a dose of reality. If they should be exempt then so should my wife's yorkies. And as far as the deep pocket people buying up property, when your great grandchildren can't afford steak, tell them you helped with that.
 

mwj

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I did not mean to imply that all purebred cattle were in it for a write off. Some are and they have very little in comon withh production ag. The slippery slope is who is going to decide who the real producer is. Maybe we should do away with all of the tax breaks and let the mkt. sort out who can stay in the buisness :shock:
 
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novatech

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mwj":17x77pd1 said:
I did not mean to imply that all purebred cattle were in it for a write off. Some are and they have very little in comon withh production ag. The slippery slope is who is going to decide who the real producer is. Maybe we should do away with all of the tax breaks and let the mkt. sort out who can stay in the buisness :shock:

I am not against anybody that is in real ag. Not even the city farmer that has cattle,chickens,or what ever. The ag exemption was set up for a reason, and it certanly wasn,t mini donkeys. If they cut it out there would only be the wealthy that would survive.

The real truth is that they will never take away this exemption. The reason is that it causes the tax base to increase. Not in the ag products but in land value, and new homes, etc., that do not get ag. deduction. New development, small ranchets, are causeing all property values to increase, which causes a larger tax base.
 

Beef11

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And as far as the deep pocket people buying up property, when your great grandchildren can't afford steak, tell them you helped with that.

I sure hope the day is coming when steak is to expensive for the masses. 4 dollar calf prices or maybe more than that. I seriously doubt that the hobby farmers are going to have that big of an impact on the Industry. It might come down to what should we do about it? Tell them what they can and can't spend there money on. I personally get along with deep pocket people, they are typically good people who have adapted to the changing world and become successful in it. Maybe a model some of us in the cow industry should try to emulate.
 

mwj

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novatech":2m8vexvo said:
The question was;


So where does this leave the ag. industry in the long term?

It leaves us just like it allways has. The people who have the money will buy what the want and need. The people who do not have the money will look for a way to get others to help them buy. These 2 things will never change!
 
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novatech

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Angus You seem to be wanting it both ways. You say it has not changed, then you say its the baby boomers causeing it .
I hope your right. I Hope it does revert back in 30 yrs.

mwj & beef In the area I live in I have seen land prices jump from $2000
per A to $6000 per A. in just 3 years. And that's ag property not developmental property. But if this does not effect the little self centered world you live in, well I guess that's ok.
 

Oldtimer

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novatech":2tayhff2 said:
Angus You seem to be wanting it both ways. You say it has not changed, then you say its the baby boomers causeing it .
I hope your right. I Hope it does revert back in 30 yrs.

mwj & beef In the area I live in I have seen land prices jump from $2000
per A to $6000 per A. in just 3 years. And that's ag property not developmental property. But if this does not effect the little self centered world you live in, well I guess that's ok.

novatech- You forget the other side of that tho--I no longer consider myself just in the cattle/horse business- now I'm also in the land business- A Land & Livestock operation...Altho the price of land has became so high its almost impossible for me to expand my cattle operation- the increasing price of my land is the best investment I have...
 
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novatech

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Oldtimer":1b5dp7n0 said:
novatech":1b5dp7n0 said:
Angus You seem to be wanting it both ways. You say it has not changed, then you say its the baby boomers causeing it .
I hope your right. I Hope it does revert back in 30 yrs.

mwj & beef In the area I live in I have seen land prices jump from $2000
per A to $6000 per A. in just 3 years. And that's ag property not developmental property. But if this does not effect the little self centered world you live in, well I guess that's ok.

novatech- You forget the other side of that tho--I no longer consider myself just in the cattle/horse business- now I'm also in the land business- A Land & Livestock operation...Altho the price of land has became so high its almost impossible for me to expand my cattle operation- the increasing price of my land is the best investment I have...

I do not forget that.

I agree . And that is pretty much my point. You have answered my question. One will no longer be able to be in just the cattle buss. and own the property. He will be forced to be in the realestate buss. or finance the buss. with outside income.
 
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novatech

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Angus/Brangus":29tw7pag said:
Let's back up the tractor. Your issue was people raising non-producing goods (ie miniature donkeys etc) that claimed an exemption and then you asked how this will change the ag industry.

It will not change the industry. For most of the non-producing people the exemption is just taking advantage of the system. Their taking advantage of it doesn't change the ag industry. They want a little chunk of land and save some bucks by claiming an ag exemption. The loss of real estate that used to produce cattle is not the fault of miniature donkeys. It is the result of supply and demand in the real estate business. The guy that used owned the pasture for cattle just made a whole lot more money by dividing the pasture into 20 acres tracts and selling them as "ranchettes". Eventually the price of beef will go up as the result of less availablity. So, if you're a producer - enjoy!

I'm not backen up no tractor crawfish.
What is going to save all those old family owned ranches. Nothing They going to go back in 20 or 30 years and buy back all those 20A plots. The price of land is increasing a lot faster than the price of beef. Who gonna run them 20 A ranches,doctors, lawyers, computer nerds. No. I'll tell ya, it will be the families of the ranchers that once owned the property, working for the nerds. The ones that want to go and brag about their ranch in the country. Look outside your little box.
 

mwj

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novatech said:
Angus You seem to be wanting it both ways. You say it has not changed, then you say its the baby boomers causeing it .
I hope your right. I Hope it does revert back in 30 yrs.

mwj & beef In the area I live in I have seen land prices jump from $2000
per A to $6000 per A. in just 3 years. And that's ag property not developmental property. But if this does not effect the little self centered world you live in, well I guess that's ok.[/quot

''Recreation'' land in my area will bring upwards of $6500 in my area. Flat black class A farm ground will bring $5000 and no one gets an ag tax break :shock: Do I tell the people who like to hunt or have a place to keep horses that they can not buy land. If you can not make an operation ''pencil'' on fair mkt. value land you can move to a cheaper area or git out of the buisness it is really that simple. Thats how it works in my little self centered world where we do not get ag tax exemptions.
 
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novatech

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mwj":25e42s8l said:
novatech":25e42s8l said:
Angus You seem to be wanting it both ways. You say it has not changed, then you say its the baby boomers causeing it .
I hope your right. I Hope it does revert back in 30 yrs.

mwj & beef In the area I live in I have seen land prices jump from $2000
per A to $6000 per A. in just 3 years. And that's ag property not developmental property. But if this does not effect the little self centered world you live in, well I guess that's ok.[/quot

''Recreation'' land in my area will bring upwards of $6500 in my area. Flat black class A farm ground will bring $5000 and no one gets an ag tax break :shock: Do I tell the people who like to hunt or have a place to keep horses that they can not buy land. If you can not make an operation ''pencil'' on fair mkt. value land you can move to a cheaper area or git out of the buisness it is really that simple. Thats how it works in my little self centered world where we do not get ag tax exemptions.

If it,s ag you should, If it,s not You should not.
And thank you' I did not know a place like that existed.
My Apologies
The problem is exactly what you have stated. Where do you find property that will pencil any more? I beleive we are running out of it faster than most people think.
I also do not think that anything that I say on here is going to make any dif. This is progress. Sad as it may be.
 
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novatech

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Angus/Brangus":5onelxan said:
If the price of beef goes up proportionately to the cost of pasture then it "pencils in", otherwise, you might have to play a different and more profitable cattle game than beef.

Now we agree on something.
And I bet you didn,t think that would ever happen.
 

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