Advice on bulls

[Rosielou]

I saw an ad for beefmaster bulls and was wondering if anyone had any advice or opinions. I'm a little worried about their birthweights and calving ease because I emailed the owner and he said their birthweights weren't recorded. I looked at their EPDs, but I'm still not sure. Right now I just have a commercial herd and am using a black angus bull, but really don't like his calves, so I am considering to get a new bull, but I don't know for sure what I want. I would love to add some brahman influence, but don't want calving problems for heifers or small cows. I lost one this season to a huge, backwards and breech calf, and I don't have alot of cows, so it just sucked. Would horns cause any calving problems because of a larger head, or just worry about the width of the shoulders?
These are also a couple hours away so if they aren't good for me then it just saves gas and my time.
Here are their EPDs- one is horned and one is polled, the horned one seems to have better numbers.
https://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/ ... 5959212320
https://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/ ... 595921232F

Thanks.

 

[wacocowboy]

I like horned bull better.

 

[Rosielou]

Yeah I was thinking he was the better of the 2.

 

[Bestoutwest]

What about a picture of each? I know that I'm a newbie, too, but I would want to see what a bull looks like not just the EPDs.

 

[Son of Butch]

I saw an ad for beefmaster bulls and was wondering if anyone had any advice or opinions. I would love to add some brahman influence. Would horns cause any calving problems because of a larger head, or just worry about the width of the shoulders?

Here are their EPDs- one is horned and one is polled, the horned one seems to have better numbers.
https://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/ ... 5959212320
https://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/ ... 595921232F

Thanks.

I know nothing about brahman, so take my advice for what it's worth. :2cents:
But why would you want to add their horn gene to your herd?
I would choose the polled bull [as long as he passes your eyeball test] or look for another polled sire.
What the bulls look like would be my deciding factor.

Epd 4/10ths of a pound birth weight difference and 1 lb ww based on LOW Accuracy epd from a herd that doesn't record
birthweights seems to barely matter.
Even a Polled bull siring 1 pound bw heavier calves could add more calving ease bcs of head shape than a horned sire.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Butch that last line is complete and total load of crap. Just for the record the horns don't start to grow till after the calf is born.

 

[Rosielou]

I normally don't trust craigslist but I thought these would be as good of a start as any to start asking advice. I emailed the owner asking if he had a number I could call to ask about them but he hasn't emailed me back so I assume he's had some offers. I thought even if I did not buy one it would help me learn.
http://littlerock.craigslist.org/grd/5127572971.html

I don't mind horns in my herd, I would prefer polled, but my main concern is calving ease. Worst case scenario I would just nub or band the horns in the heifers I would be keeping. Color doesn't bother me either, but a solid bull would be best because I will be selling the calves at the sale barn. I don't really like a birth weight over 75, which I assume could possibly be hard to find in beefmasters? Has the width of their shoulders offered calving problems?

 

[HDRider]

 

[Rosielou]

Thanks for posting that, I tried looking for something to compare breeds but couldn't find anything. I think the bull I have now is throwing around 60-70 lb calves, but I don't like how they grow off.

 

[Rafter S]

Maybe I just don't understand that chart, but doesn't it say that Angus have heavier weaning weights than Hereford, Beefmaster, Brangus, Santa Gertrudis, and Limousin? If so, I'm not buying it. Maybe Santa Gertrudis, but I doubt it. Not trying to start a fight, HDRider, but I do question those numbers. If I'm looking at the chart wrong, please explain it to me. I haven't felt stupid yet today, and I'm overdue.

 

[dieselbeef]

the polled ones better

 

[Son of Butch]

Just for the record the horns don't start to grow till after the calf is born.

Really?!?
My, my well aren't you just a fountain of knowledge Captain Obvious.
Then why haven't you noticed a little round head slides out easier than a little block head?

 

[Son of Butch]

Maybe I just don't understand that chart, but doesn't it say that Angus have heavier weaning weights than Hereford, Beefmaster, Brangus, Santa Gertrudis, and Limousin? If so, I'm not buying it. Maybe Santa Gertrudis, but I doubt it. Not trying to start a fight, HDRider, but I do question those numbers. If I'm looking at the chart wrong, please explain it to me. I haven't felt stupid yet today, and I'm overdue.

I don't know where HD found the chart and doesn't include what mated to what [obviously not straight bred to straight bred]
but I doubt that he made it up.
Buy it or not, it does help explain why Black angus is the number 1 breed in the nation...by a wide margin.

 

[HDRider]

Maybe I just don't understand that chart, but doesn't it say that Angus have heavier weaning weights than Hereford, Beefmaster, Brangus, Santa Gertrudis, and Limousin? If so, I'm not buying it. Maybe Santa Gertrudis, but I doubt it. Not trying to start a fight, HDRider, but I do question those numbers. If I'm looking at the chart wrong, please explain it to me. I haven't felt stupid yet today, and I'm overdue.

I can't defend the chart. I do believe it is straight breds.

Here is another one... http://beefmagazine.com/breeding-system ... epd-tables

Here is another chart, it shows Angus & Hereford WWs both at 432. It does not show Beefmaster, Brangus, Santa Gertrudis. Limo is shown as 443.
https://pubs.ext.vt.edu/400/400-803/400-803.html

Lots of data on the interweb, and it does not always match up..

 

[Son of Butch]

It says the data came from result of using purebred sires mated to crossbred Angus x Hereford cow herds.

 

[Kingfisher]

Butch that last line is complete and total load of crap. Just for the record the horns don't start to grow till after the calf is born.

That's good to know! I was wondering how them Longhorns ever got out !

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Yep they wait till they get some air to start growing King. Come to think of a longhorn and a jersey are about as easy calving as any thing I know of. According to Butch that just ain't possible.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Wow, Limis and Brammers marble like shoe leather.

 

[Boot Jack Bulls]

Wow, Limis and Brammers marble like shoe leather.

As for Brahma cattle, I would have no idea. But, that's a fairly accurate statement about Limis. They are a low marbling breed. There is a large percentage of Limi calves born in this country that a slaughtered to fullfill the demand for veal. The beef from a Limi calf right off the cow almost looks like chicken due to very limited marbling and the fine grain/texture. When we finish out a Limi or heavy Limi influenced steer for freezer or show, we pour corn oil on the feed for the last 60 days or so just to get them to actually show some cover and marbling.

 

[HDRider]

Wow, Limis and Brammers marble like shoe leather.

Some custom beef buyers specifically exclude Brahman influence.