Advice on Bloat Dangers with Clover?

[boondocks]

Howdy,
We just finished polywiring and turning the cows into some fall pasture we have not had them on before. It has a good bit of clover (very green leaves; flowers are gone). We are a bit worried about bloat. It has been a few days and I am watching for any signs. We have offered then some stemmy hay as well (as advised by others as well as on CA) but they are not eating it. Today, one was laying down and didn't seem to want to get up until I prodded her. She was a wee bit staggery when she stood but then was walking fine. It was a very nice sunny day and maybe she had just been laying down awhile. Seemed okay once she got moving.

I am watching their sides (especially left upper side, right?) and watching for any signs of frothiness. Anything else I should be doing or watching for? Are we running a big risk? They have access to an area that has some short grass but no clover; the other area is very clover-heavy. It was just hayed about a month ago. Nights are getting cold now but we'd hoped to keep them on this pasture another couple weeks if it holds up...

Any advice/thoughts appreciated...guess I'm just worried. Their manure is pretty green and a few are a bit loose but not too bad.

 

[dun]

You could put out a bloatgaurd block if that would put your mind at ease some. We've turned them into fields that were 75-80% clover and have never had an issue. Maybe red clover isn;t as bloaty as some of the others. I've never noticed them just stand there and eat nothing but clover, they usually take it in as they feed along with whatever else (except orchard grass) that happens to be growing in their line of travel/grazing.

 

[boondocks]

Thanks Dun. I found a few resources that said white clover is worse than red for bloat. I think ours is a mix...Maybe I will look into a bloatguard block, thanks!

 

[wbvs58]

Mine are on spring white clover at the moment and because it has increased gradually I haven't had a problem. I rotate their paddocks and the new one is often pretty heavy with clover but I check them regularly and no problems. I have put out some barley straw for them and they seem to crave a bit for the roughage and helps a bit with the squirts. I am in the middle of inseminating them and it can make things difficult when they are fresh off clover but the straw does help a lot.
Ken

 

[Stocker Steve]

Keep them full
Check in AM after a frost and 2 hours of grazing
Cull any chronic s
Carry a big knife

 

[talltimber]

Could you explain the effects of the frost/2 hrs grazing? Is it a chemical change in the clover...? Moisture content after the frost melts?

 

[Stocker Steve]

Bloat outcomes depend on a number of different things - - like amount of feed intake, type of feed mix, rate of digestion, animal tolerance, ect...
After a legume leaf freezes - - the damaged cells can break down more rapidly in the rumen, and the frosty dew may also tempt cattle to increase intake.
So even "adapted" animals can tip over the first couple mornings with a good frost. I lost an old cow to this last week, and I had another old cow that was bigger than she should have been. I think being smooth mouth increased their tenderized leaf intake until the rumen became a volcano of bright emerald green foam.
Yes, I used the big belt knife.

 

[boondocks]

So, I have a few (one in particular) that either have put on a bit of condition or are a bit bloated. Much rounder sides, looks like they swallowed a basketball. I gave them some stemmy hay, which they were eating today, and made sure they were all up and (gently) walked around. I went to TS and bought the only bloat treatment they had tonight (a single serving size of a bloat drench), but haven't administered it. Couldn't get pics yet as I didn't have a camera. Field has a good bit of new clover. No frothing or foaming at mouth, no bawling. I am going to another ag supply place tomorrow and will look for the bloat mineral blocks.

How do you tell a "wait and see" case from a need-to-treat case? Obviously, if the animal is down and won't get up or is in obvious respiratory distress, that's an emergency. But what else can be done before it gets to that point? I also bought a jug of light mineral oil at TS: has anyone used that for mild/moderate bloat? Amount/application?

many thanks!

 

[boondocks]

Also, I need a stomach tube as the only one I have is calf-size. What do you think of this one:https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=b6a59f49-814d-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5 (Koroseal stomach tube). If I tube in the bloat treatment, I guess I will need a small funnel too?

If I drench instead, is there a best way to do it?
Have not had any experience with this phase yet, so any help is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Stocker Steve]

Rounder is not the same as code black. If you walk them and they belch you should be OK.
They like to chew the tube. I think garden hose holds up better than medical tubing.
Search for bloat treatments. Old timy uses includes liquid soap mix in water and ionsopore in grain.

 

[dun]

Rounder is not the same as code black. If you walk them and they belch you should be OK.
They like to chew the tube. I think garden hose holds up better than medical tubing.
Search for bloat treatments. Old timy uses includes liquid soap mix in water and ionsopore in grain.

Many years ago we had an epidemic of bloat. I made a bridle kind of deal with a piece of 2 inch round maple a foot long for a bit. Drilled a hole through it so thast a 1/2 inch garden hose without the ferrel wwould slide through it. Saved dozens of calves with that thing, and it was easy to use and they didn;t destroy anything.

 

[boondocks]

Good suggestions, Stocker and Dun, thanks!

 

[Workinonit Farm]

I think garden hose holds up better than medical tubing.

:nod: :nod: :nod:

The few times I've needed it, it was section of garden hose that I've used. I keep a section (about 3.5' - 4') in my "medical box".

 

[boondocks]

I think garden hose holds up better than medical tubing.

:nod: :nod: :nod:

The few times I've needed it, it was section of garden hose that I've used. I keep a section (about 3.5' - 4') in my "medical box".

Thanks, that was my next question: how do you know how long to cut the hose. I take it that's a typical length?

 

[Workinonit Farm]

I keep a section (about 3.5' - 4') in my "medical box".

Thanks, that was my next question: how do you know how long to cut the hose. I take it that's a typical length?

I just took the hose out of the box and measured it......I was way off. The length I use is just about 6.5' long. That length has worked out fine for me. (I don't know why I thought it was smaller.....I guess because its been a long time since I needed it.)

 

[dun]

Don;t be smoking when you run the hose down. You'll have a blowtorch in your hands

 

[Workinonit Farm]

Don;t be smoking when you run the hose down. You'll have a blowtorch in your hands

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

Maaaany years ago, when I was in college for Vet Science, in the Dairy barn we had some calves with various issues, one of which was a calf that had difficulty burping up. In order to prevent it from bloating, we had to run a tube down its throat several times a day. Some of the students (not me of course ;-) ) would take great pleasure in putting in the tube then flicking our bic's and turning that calf into a fire-breathing dragon! :lol2:

 

[boondocks]

Don;t be smoking when you run the hose down. You'll have a blowtorch in your hands

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

Maaaany years ago, when I was in college for Vet Science, in the Dairy barn we had some calves with various issues, one of which was a calf that had difficulty burping up. In order to prevent it from bloating, we had to run a tube down its throat several times a day. Some of the students (not me of course ;-) ) would take great pleasure in putting in the tube then flicking our bic's and turning that calf into a fire-breathing dragon! :lol2:

That's hilarious! I won't try that at home though!
Thanks for the tips on length--cows seem to be holding up so hopefully I won't need to treat them. Just watching closely for now.