Advice for expanding a Hereford operation

[nap]

We purchased 23 bred Hereford heifers last spring. They are bred to a low birth weight bull and should start calving around the middle of Feb. We would like to expand the Hereford part of our operation beyond 23 mother cows. My question is what is the most feasible way of doing it? At the present time we don't have a Hereford bull. We are starting off with some very nice animals but we are interested in adding to the quality and quantity of the herd by keeping the heifer calves. We've considered AI but the problem is it would be a couple of years before we could hope to have a herd sire. Our most viable option now is probably to buy a young bull that will be ready to go by spring. I know there is a lot of Hereford expertise on this board that can give me some great suggestions. What is a reasonable price for a good herd bull prospect? Is there a better way to reach our goal of achieving a quality herd of about 50 cows? At this point I am willing to consider anything.

 

[alexfarms]

We purchased 23 bred Hereford heifers last spring. They are bred to a low birth weight bull and should start calving around the middle of Feb. We would like to expand the Hereford part of our operation beyond 23 mother cows. My question is what is the most feasible way of doing it? At the present time we don't have a Hereford bull. We are starting off with some very nice animals but we are interested in adding to the quality and quantity of the herd by keeping the heifer calves. We've considered AI but the problem is it would be a couple of years before we could hope to have a herd sire. Our most viable option now is probably to buy a young bull that will be ready to go by spring. I know there is a lot of Hereford expertise on this board that can give me some great suggestions. What is a reasonable price for a good herd bull prospect? Is there a better way to reach our goal of achieving a quality herd of about 50 cows? At this point I am willing to consider anything.

I'd like to ask you a few questions. What are your goals for your Hereford herd? Do you plan to sell breeding stock, are these registered cows? Do you have a preference between polled or horned or do you want to use both? Are you interested in show cattle that you might want to put a little extra care into or a set of practical range cattle? You stated: "We've considered AI but the problem is it would be a couple of years before we could hope to have a herd sire." I guess I don't quite understand what that statement means. Are you set up to do AI? A reasonable price for a good herd bull prospect....I'd say $2500 and up. "Is there a better way to reach our goal of achieving a quality herd of about 50 cows?"....No, I think you are on the right track. The best advice is to work with what you have and keeping back those heifer calves with the cows is a step in the right direction. Even with AI, you will probably need a bull this year to clean up after AI. So, purchasing the bull is the right way to go. How far do you want to travel to purchase the bull? There are sale calendars on the aha site, www.hereford.org, www.herefordamerica.com, maybe your home state or a neighboring state will have a calendar or ads. There will be lots of bulls sold in the next 6 months. It is best to try to pick a bull from an operation that resembles yours in environment and feeding philosophy and management. Herefords are a great breed of cattle and they should be considered by alot of commercial operations as outcrosses in the coming years so there is reason to be optomistic about the future of raising Herefords.

 

[dun]

You just missed a great opportunity with the Lonker sell out

 

[dun]

You just missed a great opportunity with the Lonker sell out

I saw those cattle. Not impressive at all. They were skinny and the weaning weights were in the 3-400 pound range. If you ask me that is not quality genetics that this fella wants in his herd.

Sure doesn;t sound like the Lonker animals I've seen!

 

[Frankie]

Nap, I don't think it matters what breed your're raising. But if you want to sell registered cattle, you've got to buy the best good, current genetics and breed them to the best bulls in the breed. Generally that means have a good AI program. Simply increasing numbers is not, necessarily, the best way to go.

 

[nap]

Nap, I don't think it matters what breed your're raising. But if you want to sell registered cattle, you've got to buy the best good, current genetics and breed them to the best bulls in the breed. Generally that means have a good AI program. Simply increasing numbers is not, necessarily, the best way to go.

Frankie, I agree totally! My problem, however, is that I'm going to have 23 open cows this spring. Even if we did do some AI we would need a cleanup bull.

 

[dun]

Nap, I don't think it matters what breed your're raising. But if you want to sell registered cattle, you've got to buy the best good, current genetics and breed them to the best bulls in the breed. Generally that means have a good AI program. Simply increasing numbers is not, necessarily, the best way to go.

Frankie, I agree totally! My problem, however, is that I'm going to have 23 open cows this spring. Even if we did do some AI we would need a cleanup bull.

Until the last 3 years or so we did 100% AI, no clean up bull. Still got all the girls settled by the second heat

 

[Frankie]

Nap, I don't think it matters what breed your're raising. But if you want to sell registered cattle, you've got to buy the best good, current genetics and breed them to the best bulls in the breed. Generally that means have a good AI program. Simply increasing numbers is not, necessarily, the best way to go.

Frankie, I agree totally! My problem, however, is that I'm going to have 23 open cows this spring. Even if we did do some AI we would need a cleanup bull.

I understand. We're planning to use a clean up bull in the spring for the first time in a very long time. Have you considered another breed for clean up? You might find one cheaper than a high quality Hereford bull, you'd have the benefit of heterosis, and could just sell those calves at the sale barn or send them through a retained ownership program and get some feedback on your cows?

 

[I luv herfrds]

Well nap you are going in the right direction. We keep back our best heifers and add them to our herd.
We just bought a really nice bull for $2000, got pics posted.
Look at what bulls would work best with your cows.

 

[KNERSIE]

In your situation you have the opportunity to really shape your herd from the word go, a luxury very few of us has had. You begin with enough numbers to apply selection pressure right from the start, done correctly it will set you up for the future.

I assume they are all bred in a given breeding season so they'll calf within 60 days of each other and that you have a calving season in mind that will suit your management and conditions?

Before anyone can even begin giving advice on bulls for the future I need to see the heifers. There is a lot of variety in the breed and some extremes of this variety needs to be get rid of or atleast addressed in the correct way.

For expansion purposes, only keep heifers out of cows that weaned calves in the top 75% of the calfcrop (usually I'd say only the top 50%, but since you're right in the beginning stages I'll be leanient) and most importantly only out of dams that are confirmed to be bred back. Any dams that are in poor condition that are bred back can be kept another year to generate income, but i wouldn't keep their heifer calves as replacements, especially since you haven't made the bull selection to fit your needs.

There is no point in retaining heifers that weaned light or whose dams couldn't raise a calf and breed back or maintain themselves to the point where they might need special care to survive the winter. All those types will cost you money and work in the future, rather get rid of those now or atleast not knowingly take their problems to the future.

Weigh all calves shortly after birth, this will prove handy information for future bull selections.

As far as bull selection, I'd synchronise and AI to a few bulls to adress issues the cow might have, not neccesarily expensive AI sires, just good solid bulls. If you like I can make individual suggestions if I see the heifers. Buy a decent young black angus bull if you can't find a good affordable hereford bull as a cleanup sire and do as Frankie suggested, sell the baldie calves for a premium, especially the heifers should be in good demand.

Keep your breeding season short right from the beginning culling ALL opens, pay attention to pigment and eyeset from the beginning, plan your health program well in advance of the breeding season and consult your vet, some vaccines might affect conception rates especially in a synchronised AI program.

 

[novatech]

Go out and buy some older bred cows with the quality you want. Fastest way and the cheapest. If you find some pairs, thats even better. Pairs bred back, better again. Take what you have and AI. You do not have to use the current trendy bulls. Use bulls that will help you reach your goals.

 

[HerefordSire]

You can pick up a STAR Benny 434R if you would like and then bring him back in a limited amount of time.

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... D&9=515C5A

 

[KNERSIE]

You can pick up a STAR Benny 434R if you would like and then bring him back in a limited amount of time.

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... D&9=515C5A

WHY?

I hope he is at least dark red since he isn't a frame 8 or a multiple trait leader.

 

[HerefordSire]

You can pick up a STAR Benny 434R if you would like and then bring him back in a limited amount of time.

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... D&9=515C5A

WHY?

I hope he is at least dark red since he isn't a frame 8 or a multiple trait leader.

WHY NOT SMARTIE PANTS? HE IS TOP NOTCH SECRET WEAPON. PUT YOUR BULLS TO SHAME!

 

[KNERSIE]

You can pick up a STAR Benny 434R if you would like and then bring him back in a limited amount of time.

http://www.herfnet.com/online/cgi-bin/i ... D&9=515C5A

WHY?

I hope he is at least dark red since he isn't a frame 8 or a multiple trait leader.

WHY NOT SMARTIE PANTS? HE IS TOP NOTCH SECRET WEAPON. PUT YOUR BULLS TO SHAME!

Why not put your money where you mouth is and post a few pics of something that you've bred that carries your prefix?

Oh, I almost forgot that you're not a member of the AHA so you won't have a prefix. I'll make it easy, why not show us anything you have that is photographed by YOU in YOUR pasture?

 

[HerefordSire]

PLEASE ADJUST YOUR ATTITUDE THEN COME BACK AND CONTRIBUTE LIKE A GENTLEMAN.

 

[KNERSIE]

PLEASE ADJUST YOUR ATTITUDE THEN COME BACK AND CONTRIBUTE LIKE A GENTLEMAN.

So I take it that we won't be seeing any pics soon?

 

[Alan]

I'm assumming you want to improve the quaility of your herd, so the only thing I can add to some good advice you have already recieved is good, accurate record keeping. Get accurate bith weights within the first 24 hrs of calving. Get all weaning weights, this will give you your ADG (average daily gain) of the calves. Keep track of the hard keepers and low producers in your herd. I keep these records on a spread sheet, it's pretty simple to set up. Decide how many cows you want/can have in year herd and start culling the lower end stuff, (I tend to cull pretty hard) , You can also buy better stock at sales, (better genitics, phenotype and EPD's) This is my second year of AIing, I raised my own clean up bull last year who was just okay, but got the job done at a good price, I figure I broke even or a little ahead after I shipped him for slaughter. This year I'm raising an AI bull calf who will do clean up duties next year and he is a much better bull and is only related to his dam. AI is the best and quickest way to improve your herd other than having deep pockets and buying your way into it.

Good luck
Alan

 

[cfpinz]

WHY NOT SMARTIE PANTS? HE IS TOP NOTCH SECRET WEAPON. PUT YOUR BULLS TO SHAME!

That might be your opinion, but I'd wager it's not shared by many others.

Why not put your money where your mouth is? Knersie has.

 

[nap]

In your situation you have the opportunity to really shape your herd from the word go, a luxury very few of us has had. You begin with enough numbers to apply selection pressure right from the start, done correctly it will set you up for the future.

I assume they are all bred in a given breeding season so they'll calf within 60 days of each other and that you have a calving season in mind that will suit your management and conditions?

Before anyone can even begin giving advice on bulls for the future I need to see the heifers. There is a lot of variety in the breed and some extremes of this variety needs to be get rid of or atleast addressed in the correct way.

For expansion purposes, only keep heifers out of cows that weaned calves in the top 75% of the calfcrop (usually I'd say only the top 50%, but since you're right in the beginning stages I'll be leanient) and most importantly only out of dams that are confirmed to be bred back. Any dams that are in poor condition that are bred back can be kept another year to generate income, but i wouldn't keep their heifer calves as replacements, especially since you haven't made the bull selection to fit your needs.

There is no point in retaining heifers that weaned light or whose dams couldn't raise a calf and breed back or maintain themselves to the point where they might need special care to survive the winter. All those types will cost you money and work in the future, rather get rid of those now or atleast not knowingly take their problems to the future.

Weigh all calves shortly after birth, this will prove handy information for future bull selections.

As far as bull selection, I'd synchronise and AI to a few bulls to adress issues the cow might have, not neccesarily expensive AI sires, just good solid bulls. If you like I can make individual suggestions if I see the heifers. Buy a decent young black angus bull if you can't find a good affordable hereford bull as a cleanup sire and do as Frankie suggested, sell the baldie calves for a premium, especially the heifers should be in good demand.

Keep your breeding season short right from the beginning culling ALL opens, pay attention to pigment and eyeset from the beginning, plan your health program well in advance of the breeding season and consult your vet, some vaccines might affect conception rates especially in a synchronised AI program.

Thanks Knersie. I will try to get some pictures of the heifers this afternoon and post them this evening. If we resort to AI any help in picking the right bull will be greatly appreciated.