Adding Insult to Injury

[tater74]

My original bull was a 2 year old and although very attentive to the cows, had a hard time getting them bred. When the calves didn't start coming with frequency, I had him tested. He scored a 60 on his BSE.

I replaced him with a virgin Char bull last May. The calving dates were strung out through the year due to the original bull issues, I took 5 cows in that had calved in July - October to get preg checked. All 5 were open. I have seen the bull breed. One particular cow I saw him breed in October, December, and January. She was older and raised a very small calf, so I culled her expecting her to be the problem.

Bull scored 90+ last May on his BSE. Cows have had shots, wormer, mineral, feed, and pasture/hay. All have a good body score. I have an appointment Tuesday for a BSE and a Trich test.
I have not brought any cows in since getting this bull, and they can't touch noses across fence lines with any other cows.

I am not dependent on cows to make a living, as I am "retired", but dang, that is a lot of work for nothing. He should have been more than able to cover 15 cows.

The guy that sold me the bull said that he would work with me on a replacement.

Any suggestions?

 

[gcreekrch]

My original bull was a 2 year old and although very attentive to the cows, had a hard time getting them bred. When the calves didn't start coming with frequency, I had him tested. He scored a 60 on his BSE.

I replaced him with a virgin Char bull last May. The calving dates were strung out through the year due to the original bull issues, I took 5 cows in that had calved in July - October to get preg checked. All 5 were open. I have seen the bull breed. One particular cow I saw him breed in October, December, and January. She was older and raised a very small calf, so I culled her expecting her to be the problem.

Bull scored 90+ last May on his BSE. Cows have had shots, wormer, mineral, feed, and pasture/hay. All have a good body score. I have an appointment Tuesday for a BSE and a Trich test.
I have not brought any cows in since getting this bull, and they can't touch noses across fence lines with any other cows.

I am not dependent on cows to make a living, as I am "retired", but dang, that is a lot of work for nothing. He should have been more than able to cover 15 cows.

The guy that sold me the bull said that he would work with me on a replacement.

Any suggestions?

Wait until testing done. Single sire breeding situations with a low libido bull can be frustrating. I would see if a replacement would work harder for you. Guarantee if a scrub Corriente crawled through the fence he would have bred them all.
The bulls we buy have been tested several months before we plan to turn out. Therefore, we test all of our bulls on June 1, a month before we let them go. It is surprising what can change in 4 to 6 months.

 

[Brute 23]

The final and ultimate test is bred cows. Its pass or fail, no in-between.

 

[4hfarms]

Find an angry underweight off color with one ball that likes to jump fences.

Gets them every time.

 

[tater74]

A friend has offered his wagyu bull if i want it.

 

[TCRanch]

Helped a friend work & preg check cattle last week. 5 out of 13 heifers were open after turning them out with their new bull. He tested great but that doesn't mean he has game. It's possible there's something wrong with the heifers (neospora, lack of mineral, etc) but not likely. She's going to have him tested again before contacting the breeder but again, IMO, simply getting tested is no guarantee. Is she willing to risk using him for another breeding season to find out? Not my circus, not my monkeys.

 

[GoWyo]

Helped a friend work & preg check cattle last week. 5 out of 13 heifers were open after turning them out with their new bull. He tested great but that doesn't mean he has game. It's possible there's something wrong with the heifers (neospora, lack of mineral, etc) but not likely. She's going to have him tested again before contacting the breeder but again, IMO, simply getting tested is no guarantee. Is she willing to risk using him for another breeding season to find out? Not my circus, not my monkeys.

I had a Square B True North son that never sired a calf here. First year I had heifers coming back into heat and turned out a second bull. Second year, I had him with cows and when they started coming back into heat I pulled a bull from another pasture to salvage the year on those cows. That bull passed BSE with flying colors both times, but the economic damage from that bull is taking two years to repair. I had problems with female fertility on the True North progeny as well. Now I run from anything that has True North in the pedigree. Some bulls just aren't any good even after a successful BSE.

 

[mwj]

Did the bull actually '' physically'' breed the cows. There could be a lot of things wrong with a bull other than viable sperm and delivery system.

 

[4hfarms]

I seriously think that the environment may be the issue. Check the cows...

 

[4hfarms]

A friend has offered his wagyu bull if i want it.

May make some good freezer meat to sell locally to customers or local butcher shop. A while back wagyu cross was selling well.

 

[tater74]

I'm not sold on using the wagyu bull. I already have light calves and don't want to mess with freezer beef.
I have seen the bull actively breed the cows.
If the bull passes, I will haul some of the cows in again and have them run some more tests.

 

[TCRanch]

Are you cows vaccinated for Lepto?

 

[tater74]

They have been, yes.

 

[bird dog]

Should the cows themselves be trich tested?

 

[tater74]

Should the cows themselves be trich tested?

Possibly.

 

[RDFF]

I'd always run at least two bulls, regardless of how many cows, just as insurance. If you don't have enough cows for that, then rent 'em. And then in a herd, about 25 per bull. Law of averages. Having two boys out there so they have to compete I think helps with the labido too.

 

[tater74]

He didn't seem to have problem with the libido part of it.
I will know more tomorrow.

 

[tater74]

Bull tested negative for trich. Waiting on the abortion panel results on the cow.
Bull was less than 70% on the BSE. Vet wasn't sure if the score was related to the freezing weather a few weeks back.
Will have him tested again in a few weeks.
Have him currently separated from the cows with a steer that we are feeding out.

 

[tater74]

Here is the follow-up on the bull and non-breeding cows.
Took bull to a different vet. Bull tested great, but had a respiratory infection that the prior vet did not catch.
All the abortion panels came back negative.
Turned the bull back in April 11th.
Took the cows to a 3rd vet yesterday. (just found out about him, and closer than the 2nd vet.)
Of the 5 cows that were palped open on Feb. 17th, 1 is 8 months pregnant, 2 are 7 months pregnant, and 1 is 5 months pregnant. One cow is open. She will go to the sale next week.

I might understand someone missing a 2 month fetus, but how do you miss a 4 or 5 month old fetus?

What would you do about the original vet? Complaint? 3rd vet said he has seen it before with that vet.

 

[simme]

I might understand someone missing a 2 month fetus, but how do you miss a 4 or 5 month old fetus?

What would you do about the original vet? Complaint? 3rd vet said he has seen it before with that vet.

A 2 month bred cow is easier to palpate than a 5 month bred. The 2 month calf is easy to reach and big enough to feel. The 5 month calf is still fairly small, but heavier and has fell over the pelvic rim deeper into the cow. Harder to reach.

What to do? Think about the Biopryn blood test for pregnancy. No vet required. Pull the sample, mail it to a lab, get results in a few days. Very accurate.

You can have all the discussions about what vet A, B, or C should be able to do, but you have to work with what is available to you and what gives good results. For me, that is the mail in Biopryn test.

When humans suspect pregnancy, they don't go to be palpated. They get a simple test of a sample.