Addiction

[LongLopeSlowHorse]

Alcoholism has been recognized as a disease since the 1930's--by both the AMA and WHO.

Alcoholics get a 'better buzz', their bodies process it differently, chemicals found in their brains are similar to those found in the brains of heroin addicts.

 

[M-5]

its a disease because it is hereditary or your predestined to succumb to vices by our genetic makeup. it can skip generations but the marker is there to become addicted to it.

Horseshyt :D ....you could say anything happens genetically and randomly skips generations. I say it's a decision to use. It's a decision to let drag you to the gutter and it's a decision to QUIT.

*understanding some drugs like heroin cause a physical dependence. That must be medical treated

So personalty traits are not genetic with your pull it out of your azz theory.

 

[City Guy]

Tennessee Tuxedo: If you are an addict I will keep quiet and let you explain what you just said about me--if you want to.

 

[callmefence]

its a disease because it is hereditary or your predestined to succumb to vices by our genetic makeup. it can skip generations but the marker is there to become addicted to it.

Horseshyt :D ....you could say anything happens genetically and randomly skips generations. I say it's a decision to use. It's a decision to let drag you to the gutter and it's a decision to QUIT.

*understanding some drugs like heroin cause a physical dependence. That must be medical treated

So personalty traits are not genetic with your pull it out of your azz theory.

They are certainly not diseases.

 

[M-5]

Their would be no alcoholics if it was just as simple as a decision after that first drink.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Tennessee Tuxedo: If you are an addict I will keep quiet and let you explain what you just said about me--if you want to.

Well since I'm not an addict I guess I'm not allowed to respond?

I have been up close and personal with a couple of addicts, one an alcoholic and the other is hooked on snorting opiates. I've spent enough time in rehab facilities in a support function and I've seen what goes on in the mind of an addict.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Horseshyt :D ....you could say anything happens genetically and randomly skips generations. I say it's a decision to use. It's a decision to let drag you to the gutter and it's a decision to QUIT.

*understanding some drugs like heroin cause a physical dependence. That must be medical treated

So personalty traits are not genetic with your pull it out of your azz theory.

They are certainly not diseases.

You're wrong.

 

[bball]

How is a disease then prince? You choose to do it , then catch the disease.
Sometimes I got fishing when I should be doing something else. Can I call that a disease. :D

Ron and dash are exactly right. Many diseases start from a decision to do something. A decision to have sex, a decision to eat poorly, a decision to be sedentary, a decision to not wash your hands, bathe, cook with safe water, etc, etc. Alcohol, cigarettes and drugs react to receptors in our bodies. Not everyone responds the same to these chemical influences. It's often hard for someone who can drink a few beers and not become dependent to understand how some can become hooked early and often. Chemical addiction is a disease, despite the decision that initiated it. Watch someone go through DTs from alcohol, or withdrawal from opiods- that reaction is NOT a decision.

Ball
I know I'm in over my head with you.
But to me a disease is a medical condition. You can't decide not to have cancer. You can decide to live a life that reduces the chance. But that doesn't mean it won't happen. And when you get it you can't decide not to have it anymore. Addiction is different because no matter what you do medically it ain't going to do SHYT until the addict decides to quit.

= decision

99% of the time, I would just bow out here instead of going round and round. But I respect you Andy, too much to not say this. My heart broke for you on the heroin post- how open and honest you were and how inconsiderate, and unempathetic some responses were...so, please take this as coming from someone who regards you highly as a fella can on an Internet forum;
You play the role of simple, blue-collar, calloused hand, Hayseed very well. But it's time to put that away on this topic. You're a very intelligent man. You own and manage your own successfull business. Your posts here are almost always intelligent, clever and relevant. You're no simpleton. So, on this topic, I emplore you to access that intelligent part of your brain, and put aside your emotional response pertaining to your son. He will be coming home to you in a month, and he is going to need your support-not just your home, or job, or resources; but your support as his father. In order to do that, you must understand the chemical dependence aspect of his affliction; no matter the why or what prompted him to start. He does have to make the decision to stop, but please understand the physiological draws he will endure; especially during times of stess. You're far too intelligent and have too much at stake to just brush it off so simply as not being a 'real thing'. If i have overstepped my bounds, well, I won't apologize. You need to get this one right; to be as supportive of him as you can. He will need your strength and support to stay on the 'right' path. Sincerely, please investigate some of the science of effects of chemical dependence. He has to do his part for sure, but it's far from simple or easy. Humbly yours.

 

[callmefence]

So personalty traits are not genetic with your pull it out of your azz theory.

They are certainly not diseases.

You're wrong.

Personality traits are diseases???

 

[M-5]

You should check with Mr. Webster he has put alot and time in his definition

 

[callmefence]

Ron and dash are exactly right. Many diseases start from a decision to do something. A decision to have sex, a decision to eat poorly, a decision to be sedentary, a decision to not wash your hands, bathe, cook with safe water, etc, etc. Alcohol, cigarettes and drugs react to receptors in our bodies. Not everyone responds the same to these chemical influences. It's often hard for someone who can drink a few beers and not become dependent to understand how some can become hooked early and often. Chemical addiction is a disease, despite the decision that initiated it. Watch someone go through DTs from alcohol, or withdrawal from opiods- that reaction is NOT a decision.

Ball
I know I'm in over my head with you.
But to me a disease is a medical condition. You can't decide not to have cancer. You can decide to live a life that reduces the chance. But that doesn't mean it won't happen. And when you get it you can't decide not to have it anymore. Addiction is different because no matter what you do medically it ain't going to do SHYT until the addict decides to quit.

= decision

99% of the time, I would just bow out here instead of going round and round. But I respect you Andy, too much to not say this. My heart broke for you on the heroin post- how open and honest you were and how inconsiderate, and unempathetic some responses were...so, please take this as coming from someone who regards you highly as a fella can on an Internet forum;
You play the role of simple, blue-collar, calloused hand, Hayseed very well. But it's time to put that away on this topic. You're a very intelligent man. You own and manage your own successfull business. Your posts here are almost always intelligent, clever and relevant. You're no simpleton. So, on this topic, I emplore you to access that intelligent part of your brain, and put aside your emotional response pertaining to your son. He will be coming home to you in a month, and he is going to need your support-not just your home, or job, or resources; but your support as his father. In order to do that, you must understand the chemical dependence aspect of his affliction; no matter the why or what prompted him to start. He does have to make the decision to stop, but please understand the physiological draws he will endure; especially during times of stess. You're far too intelligent and have too much at stake to just brush it off so simply as not being a 'real thing'. If i have overstepped my bounds, well, I won't apologize. You need to get this one right; to be as supportive of him as you can. He will need your strength and support to stay on the 'right' path. Sincerely, please investigate some of the science of effects of chemical dependence. He has to do his part for sure, but it's far from simple or easy. Humbly yours.

Brad I seldom cross paths with you for the same reason. Respect. And your scary smart.

If you remember the this is Chisholms second trip. The first time he was released under supervision. Drug classes aa meetings you name it. I watched them tell him how he was sick and it was ok and every one would chant and hold hands. I'm sorry I think all it did was soften the shame and the accountability for his bad decisions. And it put him in contact with a bunch of addicts.
Don't worry. He has a net , a home, a job love a d support.
A man knows the difference respect and pity.
Respect has to be earned. And he is going to have to earn that respect back. I believe it to be essential.

As far as you ball I will listen to anything you say with a open mind...no worries I promise

 

[Cross-7]

It's a choice
Dealing with people
1 alcohol
2 assault and battery

You choose :D

 

[bball]

If you remember the this is Chisholms second trip. The first time he was released under supervision. Drug classes aa meetings you name it. I watched them tell him how he was sick and it was ok and every one would chant and hold hands. I'm sorry I think all it did was soften the shame and the accountability for his bad decisions. And it put him in contact with a bunch of addicts.
Don't worry. He has a net , a home, a job love a d support.
A man knows the difference respect and pity.
Respect has to be earned. And he is going to have to earn that respect back. I believe it to be essential.

As far as you ball I will listen to anything you say with a open mind...no worries I promise

You're absolutely correct. It will take time to regain your respect...and TRUST.
The chemical dependence is a disease, because now that he is addicted, it doesn't just go away. Even when he stops using; he will always be an addict. Just not a user. The propensity to be dependent upon the chemical is there now and will never go away. Mentally, he will have to fight that fight every single day, moment by moment. Some days will be easier than others. The part I hope you will understand (and will help you be a better support) is that, somedays, that chemical dependence (craving) can be so strong that it is a real battle between his mind (logic) and his physiologic need for the fix. It is real. And terribly powerful. This is a battle that is won minute by minute, stringing together a long line of small victories. He has receptors in his body now that will crave, very strongly, the chemicals; especially when specific triggers are excited. We treat many addictions with medical assistance, not unlike cancer. Chemical dependence is very difficult because it does impact the brain, which we medically know the least about, as well as the physical body. My only advice is try to gain more information about it so you can be the most supportive and best you that you can be. It's an awful thing waking up every single day knowing you have to fight a faceless power that has tremendous control over your body and mind, but it can be done; just rarely alone.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

They are certainly not diseases.

You're wrong.

Personality traits are diseases???

My bad, I was in a rush to get out the door and beat the traffic therefore I misintpreted what was being said. I apologize.

 

[callmefence]

You're wrong.

Personality traits are diseases???

My bad, I was in a rush to get out the door and beat the traffic therefore I misintpreted what was being said. I apologize.

Burrito truck...

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Brad, you are an awesome resource on this topic. Thank you for your insight and words of wisdom. I needed to be reminded of many of the aspects of dependency.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Personality traits are diseases???

My bad, I was in a rush to get out the door and beat the traffic therefore I misintpreted what was being said. I apologize.

Burrito truck...

Ice cream. :D

 

[TCRanch]

Fence, and all the other parents dealing with addicted children, has anyone ever told you it's not your fault? When you raised them the best you knew how & they still succumbed? When you tried to help them & it didn't succeed? That you didn't pass on a "defective" gene even though there may be a genetic link to chemical addictions? I haven't participated in these recent threads but reading them breaks my heart. Please be kind to yourselves.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Fenceman you should listen to them because I agree with your assessment of the situation. I've been clean for 35 years now, but still not out of the woods. You'll never loose your craving, you just have to make your mind up to quit and fight the craving everyday. Until that happens it'll be the same olé same ole, no matter what you or anyone else tries or does. I do know this, talking down and being negative is not the way to change someone. Best of luck and stay strong.

 

[City Guy]

MY NAME IS CITY GUY AND I AM AN ALCOHOLIC. It's been 22 years and 40 days since my last drink. TT, if you know so much about addicts you would not have accused me of NOT being up close and personal because I have inadvertently left so many clues in many of my posts. But it's not your fault. Most nonalcoholics don't see the signs, This is an area where I have the real world experience that you cowboys hold so dear, so I cordially invite you to sit down, open your minds and listen--if you want to. I am not a drug addict so I will not speak for them.

Drinking is NOT the problem, it is only a symptom; one of many, the most dangerous being denial. That is why most alkies call the condition a mental illness. Many of us had the illness long before we took our first drink. Looking back, I can remember exhibiting alcoholic behavior in the third grade, yet I did not drink until I was eighteen. No one had a clue to the truth.
Yes, it is a choice to take that first drink and most people do--with no ill effects--ever. And if all goes well, most people choose to drink again. Margonme made a very strange statement, "If it provides a level of comfort, it becomes an addiction". To be blunt, that is ridiculous! By that logic nonalcoholics must drink for a "level of discomfort"!! No, drunks and non drunks drink for a variety of reasons, at least at first. But for us drunks the act of drinking is never "complete". We feel there is more, something better, something that will make us feel even happier and it is just one more drink away. It may happen fast or it may take years but we become physically and phycologicly(sp) dependent on the booze.
There are several phases of alcoholism and some people may not experience all of them while others race thru them at supersonic speed. For a drunk to quit there must be a bottom, a point at which we realize we need help. It may be a soft landing or a hard landing, but it must come to us. No one can bring us to it. If you want to help an alcoholic make that bottom come as soon as possible--cut them off financially, kick them out of the house or fire them. Have them arrested if they have committed a felony. Inform their spouses, employers, parents and adult children of their condition and any wrong doings. (They know anyway, but you are letting them know that you know!)
My bottom came when I punched that young man in the face for absolutely no reason and was arrested.

IT TAKES ONE TO KNOW ONE I have agonized over this part of my reply. The final step in AA is to offer a hand to the alcoholic who still suffers, but we are cautioned not to push the issue but rather let the sufferer ask for help. You all know me well enough to know that waiting and keeping quiet is not in my nature. But I will honor the rule.
There are three people on this forum who, even though I have never met them, I am sure are alcoholics; in the early stages but in danger none the less. I want to help them. All I can do is offer two basic observations:

1. Nonalcoholics almost never talk about their personal drinking habits.
2. If you think you might have a problem with alcohol, you do.

God bless you and keep you safe