Actual BW Vs BW EPD

[Scotty]

We may have hit on this. In your opinion what % does the cow play on actual BW of the calve. Lets keep nutrician and weather, climate and part of the world all equal. Reson I quiz is as follows. Who would use BVND 208 A -14768730 for heifers. - 1.2 BW EPD. But a calve out of him and GAR Prec. 2536(6+ BW EPD) got a 100 lb calve. Also a recip calve.


Scotty

 

[Brandonm2]

EPDs are the "expected" progeny differences. It does not say that every calf out of a bull is going to weigh 75 pounds. A proven low birthweight Angus bull could still throw a 110 pound calf and a high birthweight Charolais bull could throw a 70 pound calf; that is just not what we would expect based on their history. Obviously a mature large framed cow on a high plane of nutrition in mild weather is going to be more likely to throw a high birthweight calf than a 22 month old Jersey heifer eating poor hay with a hurricane hitting at 275 days into the gestation even if that does not gibe with the EPD data.

 

[Scotty]

Go ahead and state some more crap I did not know.


Scotty

 

[WORANCH]

The acc. on this bull is low, his bw epd may go up alot over the next year . On heifers I always use high acc. bulls . I sleep better at night

 

[Brandonm2]

Go ahead and state some more crap I did not know.

Don't ask an obvious question if you already know the answer. One 100 pound calf doesn't mean jack diddly about any bull. Likewise one 70 pound calf doesn't mean a bull is low birthweight or that the EPDs are wrong.

 

[dun]

Now to the actaul question. The cow contributes at least half. That's for her natural calves. As a recip she won;t contribute much more then her ability to nourish the calf while she's carrying it.

dun

 

[ollie']

Go ahead and state some more crap I did not know.

Don't ask an obvious question if you already know the answer. One 100 pound calf doesn't mean jack diddly about any bull. Likewise one 70 pound calf doesn't mean a bull is low birthweight or that the EPDs are wrong.

One hundred pound calf certainly means he can sire one. A bw epd of +10 doesn't mean he can sire a calf weighing anything.

 

[Scotty]

Go ahead and state some more crap I did not know.

Don't ask an obvious question if you already know the answer. One 100 pound calf doesn't mean jack diddly about any bull. Likewise one 70 pound calf doesn't mean a bull is low birthweight or that the EPDs are wrong.

Read the question clearer jack.


Scotty

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Go ahead and state some more crap I did not know.


Scotty

Well, Scotty - I don't consider this crap and I don't know whether you know it or not, but here it is!

CED (Calving Ease Direct) - The ease with which a Bull's calves are born to first-calf heifers. These EPD's are expressed in percent unassisted births, with positive EPD's indicating greater calving ease. It predicts the average difference in ease with which a sire's calves will be born when he is bred to first-calf heifers.

CEM (Calving Ease Maternal) - The ease at which a sire's daughters calve as first-calf heifers. This EPD is expressed as a RATIO, with those above 100 indicating easier births. These EPD's are expressed in percent unassisted births, with positive EPD's indicating greater calving ease.

Birth Weight (BW) The birth weight of a bull's PROGENY, expressed in pounds, is a PREDICTOR of a sire's abilityto transmit birth weight to his progeny - compared to that of OTHER sires.

In regard to your question, "In your opinion, what % does the cow play on actual BW if the calf?" one would assume that it would be 50% cow and 50% bull - and that could very well be true. However, there are other factors contibuting to the "Birth Weight" enigma - some of those factors being Calving Ease Direct and Calving Ease Maternal. Thereby, interjecting those additional determinants into the percentage 'mix-master' we realize that we must take into account the CED and CEM of the Bull's Dam also, inasmuch as it is prudent to consider the Bull's Dam in all OTHER deliberations relating to which bull to utilize for breeding heifers.

The bull in question, Rito 4L62 of 2536 BVND208, 14768730, IMO has spectacular EPD numbers - EXCEPT Maternal Milk, which is +40 - -which I think is too high. I may be proven incorrect in times to come, but I think that the Angus Breed is going too far overboard with the high Milk EPD, in spite of the exemplary numbers many of the current day calves are demonstrating.

But I digress!

Back to the question at hand. You stated that a calf by BVND208 and out of GAR Precision 2536 (6+ BW EPD) produced a 100# calf. I am not surprised, because BVND208 was bred BACK to his dam GAR Prec. 2536! That is REALLY stacking BW EPD's! In this regard, High BW EPD's are compounded, and I would question that mating decision somewhat more than criticize the use of BVND208 in mating him to other cows with lower BW EPD's than his Dam possesses.

To answer your question, "Who would use BVND 208 for heifers?" I would use him on select heifers with optimum size and with the caveat regarding the +40 Milk EPD.

This example with Scotty's question is precisely why I continually stress the importance of reading and studying and KNOWING what you are doing when you consider playing the EPD and Phenotype "Mating Game!" The old adage that "Figures Don't Lie but Liars Figure" is prevalent here.

In spite of all of the above - -Rito 4L62 of 2536 BVND 208 (14768730) of the Angus Breed is one example of a phenomenal pedigree. I am unfamiliar with his Phenotype.

DOC HARRIS

 

[Brandonm2]

Go ahead and state some more crap I did not know.

Don't ask an obvious question if you already know the answer. One 100 pound calf doesn't mean jack diddly about any bull. Likewise one 70 pound calf doesn't mean a bull is low birthweight or that the EPDs are wrong.

Read the question clearer jack.


Scotty

State the question more clearly next time Jack and maybe you will get whatever it is you want to hear.

 

[Scotty]

Go ahead and state some more crap I did not know.

Don't ask an obvious question if you already know the answer. One 100 pound calf doesn't mean jack diddly about any bull. Likewise one 70 pound calf doesn't mean a bull is low birthweight or that the EPDs are wrong.

Read the question clearer jack.


Scotty

State the question more clearly next time Jack and maybe you

will get whatever it is you want to hear.

Sure Brandon. DOC thanks. That was an answer that satifies my question. I also don't consider it crap either.


Scotty

 

[Scotty]

He also sold for 20,000 . I forget who to.


Scotty

 

[ccc]

it's been my experience that embryo calves are heavier at birth. Maybe that's only my herd but I would like to know if anyone else has this happen.

 

[cypressfarms]

I'm kind of jumping in late in the game, but the cow may have more than 50% depending on the cow. Don't brahman cows naturally supress the birth weight of their calves? This would obviously affect bw regardless of what she was bred to. I'm not sure if any other breed does this.

If caustic's out there, maybe he can comment on brahman's ability to supress birth weight.

 

[ranchmgr]

Cypress-"Maternal gene", found in brahma and jersey cattle.

 

[MikeC]

I have read that because of "Mitochondrial DNA" the cow lends more genetic sequence to a calf than the bull. Up to 50% more.


snip.........

Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA, or less popularly, mDNA) is DNA which is not located in the nucleus of the cell but in the mitochondria. Mitochondria are parts of the cell that generate fuel in the form of adenosine triphosphate (ATP), which drives the varied machinery of the cell.

Unlike most of the cell, the function of which is defined by the nuclear DNA, the mitochondria have their own DNA and are assumed to have evolved separately.

mtDNA is typically passed on only from the mother during sexual reproduction (mitochondrial genetics), meaning that the mitochondria are clones. This means that there is little change in the mtDNA from generation to generation, unlike nuclear DNA which changes by 50% each generation. Since the mutation rate is easily measured, mtDNA is a powerful tool for tracking matrilineage, and has been used in this role for tracking many species back thousands of generations.

 

[cypressfarms]

Cypress-"Maternal gene", found in brahma and jersey cattle.

O.k., ranchmgr, glad you thought of the real name.

Here's a question to ponder. If you bred a high growth bull (let's say char or simi) to a brahman/jersey cow, would you then expect less calving problems, and higher weighing calves at WW and YW???

 

[ranchmgr]

The calving problems caused by to big of calf would be non-existent.
Growth potential of the bull should be exspressed, it may even be accentuated in the jersey do to milk yield and content.

 

[Aero]

We may have hit on this. In your opinion what % does the cow play on actual BW of the calve. Lets keep nutrician and weather, climate and part of the world all equal. Reson I quiz is as follows. Who would use BVND 208 A -14768730 for heifers. - 1.2 BW EPD. But a calve out of him and GAR Prec. 2536(6+ BW EPD) got a 100 lb calve. Also a recip calve.

Scotty

i am a little confused. are you talking about using 208 or a 208 son? from my calculations, the 208 son would have had to breed the cow when he was ~7 mo old. a pretty good feat for the most virile of bulls.

was this your bull?

 

[Aero]

He also sold for 20,000 . I forget who to.


Scotty

Cain Cattle Co