A little help

[gh1217]

I have a 700lb bull calf that is not eating. (not even feed) You can tell he feels bad just looking at him. He seems to have some clear and white discharge coming out of his nose. I gave him a shot of nuflur yesterday and again today. Still not eating. Any suggestions? Thanks

 

[Howdyjabo]

First thing you should have done was take his temperature--
Now its too late(you gave Nuflour) to know what was really going on.

 

[Alice]

Give him some banamine...helps with fever and just generally makes them feel better.

We had a vet look at one of our calves yesterday. Still can't believe it...another story.

Anyway, she was acting poorly, but still eating. The vet said she sounded as tho she was getting pneumonia and gave her a big shot of baytril and 5 ccs banamine for the fever. She's acting better daily.

The banamine really helps with the overall general feeling of a sick animal.

Alice

 

[msscamp]

Treating the fever without knowing what is causing it is never a good idea. Banamine is a very useful drug when used in conjuction with the proper antibiotic to eliminate the source of the fever, but used by itself it can mask symptoms and prevent an accurate diagnosis - thus leading to bigger and more expensive problems down the road. Cattle go off feed for a reason, find out what that reason is. Is this animal displaying any other symptoms? Head hanging, ears drooping, panting, labored breathing, distended abdomen, humped up back, favoring one leg, etc?

 

[Alice]

Treating the fever without knowing what is causing it is never a good idea. Banamine is a very useful drug when used in conjuction with the proper antibiotic to eliminate the source of the fever, but used by itself it can mask symptoms and prevent an accurate diagnosis - thus leading to bigger and more expensive problems down the road. Cattle go off feed for a reason, find out what that reason is. Is this animal displaying any other symptoms? Head hanging, ears drooping, panting, labored breathing, distended abdomen, humped up back, favoring one leg, etc?

According to Howdyjabo, the nuflor pretty well negated any proper diagnosis, or did I misread that? Plus, if what's wrong with the calf is bacteria related, the nuflor has already gone to work on what's causing the fever. gh1217 wanted to know what might help the calf go back on it's feed. If there is a fever, or even if there isn't, banamine will benefit. There was no mention of a vet being called, therefore, it is an assumption that gh1217 chose not to call a vet and to self treat. Ergo, banamine will make the calf feel better.

Mask symptoms, yes...but gh1217 wanted an answer to the question of what to do for the calf right now.

gh1217, first and foremost, if you are in doubt, call a vet (and good luck). If you want to know what's wrong with the calf, the banamine will wear off, and IF the nuflor didn't treat the problem successfully, the fever will return and the vet will have a temperature to help with the diagnosis. If you don't want to call the vet, and want to self treat, and want to make the calf feel better, myself, I would give the calf banamine.

Alice

 

[msscamp]

Treating the fever without knowing what is causing it is never a good idea. Banamine is a very useful drug when used in conjuction with the proper antibiotic to eliminate the source of the fever, but used by itself it can mask symptoms and prevent an accurate diagnosis - thus leading to bigger and more expensive problems down the road. Cattle go off feed for a reason, find out what that reason is. Is this animal displaying any other symptoms? Head hanging, ears drooping, panting, labored breathing, distended abdomen, humped up back, favoring one leg, etc?

According to Howdyjabo, the nuflor pretty well negated any proper diagnosis, or did I misread that?

I can't say for sure, but I'm thinking you misread it. As far as I can tell, Howdyjabo stated that the nuflor would interfere with an accurate temperature reading. She is probably right on that, but I'm not sure what the relevance is since every bug does not have a particular temperature associated with it. Nuflor will eliminate certain things, but it is not a be all, do all treatment, and there are a lot of bugs that will not respond to it. We don't get a lot of respiratory problems, but our experience is that Baytril is much more reliable for respiratory problems with this age calf.

Plus, if what's wrong with the calf is bacteria related, the nuflor has already gone to work on what's causing the fever.

Maybe, maybe not. As previously stated, not all bacterial bugs are going to respond to Nuflor - it is not the be all, do all treatment as far as bacterial bugs go. This is where not treating with Banamine comes in, because every little symptom helps in the diagnosis - especially in the case of a newbie who probably does not have the experience to tell what is wrong with the animal and has to rely on his vet's recommendation for treatment.

gh1217 wanted to know what might help the calf go back on it's feed. If there is a fever, or even if there isn't, banamine will benefit. There was no mention of a vet being called, therefore, it is an assumption that gh1217 chose not to call a vet and to self treat. Ergo, banamine will make the calf feel better.

What is the point of making the calf feel better if the underlying cause of going off feed is not addressed? Determine the cause, treat the cause, the problem is solved, and the calf goes back on feed.

Mask symptoms, yes...but gh1217 wanted an answer to the question of what to do for the calf right now.

Right now - Find out what is wrong and treat it with the proper medications!

gh1217, first and foremost, if you are in doubt, call a vet (and good luck). If you want to know what's wrong with the calf, the banamine will wear off, and IF the nuflor didn't treat the problem successfully, the fever will return and the vet will have a temperature to help with the diagnosis. If you don't want to call the vet, and want to self treat, and want to make the calf feel better, myself, I would give the calf banamine.

And you may end up with a dead calf.

Alice

 

[Alice]

No, I don't think I misread what howdyjabo wrote.

That aside I wrote what I would do and made very certain I included "gh1217, first and foremost, if you are in doubt, call a vet (and good luck)" in my second post. I failed to say that in my first and for that, gh1217, I beg your forgiveness.

I gave a suggestion, msscamp. What is your suggestion? All I'm reading is that you find my suggestion an extremely poor one. So, you help the guy out here...what is your suggestion?

Alice

 

[Howdyjabo]

Odds are the calf IS sick-- but without the original temperature we don't know for sure-- and we don't know how effective the first treatment protocol was(again no temperature) to decide the next course of action..

Take a temperature-- it only takes 3 minutes .

As for Banamine-- I am real nervous of the indescriminate use of Banamine. Its a great drug when used properly. But you have to keep in mind how it works and that it interferes with temperature protocols AND at times the lower fevers are actually good for the animals- and don't need to be dropped artificially.

As far as giving advice -- I can't without a temperature base to go on-- everything now is REALLY shooting in the dark- .

 

[gh1217]

I am listening to all the post. Thanks so much for all your input. We had another calf with fever and most of its hair came out. First time I have seen that. We gave the nuflur for a couple of days and it went back to eating and is doing fine. We just can't figure out waht is causing the problem. The 700lb calf is up in the barn being weaned. (he has been up for a few weeks) The calf that had its hair fall out was in the pasture until we put it and its mother up to doctor it..Thanks again and I would like to hear more if you have anymore ideas.

 

[Alice]

Odds are the calf IS sick-- but without the original temperature we don't know for sure-- and we don't know how effective the first treatment protocol was(again no temperature) to decide the next course of action..

Take a temperature-- it only takes 3 minutes .

As for Banamine-- I am real nervous of the indescriminate use of Banamine. Its a great drug when used properly. But you have to keep in mind how it works and that it interferes with temperature protocols AND at times the lower fevers are actually good for the animals- and don't need to be dropped artificially.

As far as giving advice -- I can't without a temperature base to go on-- everything now is REALLY shooting in the dark- .

Given indiscriminately, Banamine can also be hard on the animal's stomach.

As explained to my husband, Van, by the vet, banamine is like aspirin. Given too often and/or over an extended period of time it can play havoc on a cow's gut. It is, however, necessary to get whatever fever there is down to keep the animal from going off its feed...and it's really important to keep the animal from going off its feed while it's not well.

Alice

 

[cul8r]

I have a 700lb bull calf that is not eating. (not even feed) You can tell he feels bad just looking at him. He seems to have some clear and white discharge coming out of his nose. I gave him a shot of nuflur yesterday and again today. Still not eating. Any suggestions? Thanks

Get a tube of Probios and give him some of it. (You know the blue paste) You can get it at Tractor Supply or your local feed store should have it.

 

[GMN]

To make the animal start eating again, Vitamin B works good for that. A white nasal discharge makes me think of a respiratory infection/cold, and LA-200 works great for this. I would try these 2 things before I had a Vet out.

GMN

 

[msscamp]

I gave a suggestion, msscamp. What is your suggestion? All I'm reading is that you find my suggestion an extremely poor one. So, you help the guy out here...what is your suggestion?

Alice

What is up with the attitude and what makes you so sure my post was directed at you in the first place? I posted (in reply to the original poster, by the way), you quoted me with a response and I replied to it. My suggestion is for gh1217 to provide a little more information and maybe we can help him. Going off feed can result from anything from pneumonia to bloat to heat stress to pushing a show animal to unknowingly feeding crappy feed to a thousand other things. White nasal discharge can result from temperature fluctuations and may not be a sign of illness at all - I don't know what part of Georgia he is located in, but north Georgia has mountains and that may be the case. GH1217 has provided to little information to even hazard a guess, much less a treatment suggestion.

 

[gh1217]

The white discharge has gotten worse and he still hasn't eaten. Temp is 101. I live in extreme north Ga. not in the mountains though. Looks like a bad case of pneumonia. He is drinking water. I saw him pee and his stool was very runny, yellow, and looked like snot. Gave a shot of Micatil (something like that) and banamine. Ideas?

 

[Alice]

Are you in an area that doesn't have a vet? He really needs a vet, I would think. What made you decide to try micotil? You seem to have a supply of antibiotics there. Can you call a vet and describe what's going on and ask what he might recommend?

Alice

 

[Alice]

Another thought re: veterinarian advice...

If you don't have access to a vet, call one of the Georgia veterinary colleges, or one of the Georgia universities that has a veterinary school. Heck, call Texas A&M school of veterinarian medicine. I've worked at three universities and the faculty at each one was more than happy to help out john q. public with certain questions pertaining to the departments that I worked in. It's worth a shot.

Alice

 

[Howdyjabo]

With a temperature of 101-- hes probably dying.

The snotty nose doesn't really mean the calf is sick or sick enough to treat-or not getting better- so I don't even pay attention to it.

The stool looking like snot IS---- BAD news--

I know that cow/calf opperations get by 95% of the time with hit and miss treatments. But when it does go bad you have nothing left to fall back on..

If you base treatments on temperature 90-95% of the time the temperature will tell you when you should start and when to switch- and when you should maintain the course no matter how bad the calf looks.

PS- be careful with the Micotil
Its a very dangerous medicine should you accidentally come in contact with it.

 

[Alice]

With a temperature of 101-- hes probably dying.

Oh! Our vet told us normal temp was 101!

Alice

 

[gh1217]

I knew 101 was normal. We had the vet out today. She wasn't postive what was going on either. We ran a hose down him. Some air came out. She pumped some stuff into him that should make him have some BM's. She listen to his lungs and they sounded pretty clear. She gave him a dose of the micatil to be sure. She sleaved his rectum to check for blockage. (nothing) She felt like we should see some improvment tomorrow. If not she thought he may have a blocked or twisted intestine. Anyway, that was todays events. Oh, she did give him some of the paste that was mentioned in one of the earlier post..Thanks again gang

 

[Alice]

So far good news! You are doing all you can. All you can do now is keep on going and don't beat yourself up over anything. S**t happens. AND, it's not over 'til it's over.

"Good job!"

Alice