watso059
Well-known member
Dont you want them to calf at around 2 yrs old? So, about 14 or 15 months old I think?
A few ??? for a cattle newbie
- Thread starter Gliderider
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mdmdogs3
Well-known member
now don't forget about when they jump fences -
our bull (big and charolais) decided that we were just too scary one day - don't remember what we were doing that got him wound up but it wasn't any thing big - just something out of the ordinary -
the big boy just as quick as you please jumped his none to small body up and over that fence (4 strand barbed) didn't leave more than a little hair on the fence
luckily it was a cross fence (the reason it was only 4 strand)
I'm still trying to figure out if I can get him on my dog's agility equipment
bet I could win the next trial :lol:
our bull (big and charolais) decided that we were just too scary one day - don't remember what we were doing that got him wound up but it wasn't any thing big - just something out of the ordinary -
the big boy just as quick as you please jumped his none to small body up and over that fence (4 strand barbed) didn't leave more than a little hair on the fence
luckily it was a cross fence (the reason it was only 4 strand)
I'm still trying to figure out if I can get him on my dog's agility equipment
bet I could win the next trial :lol:
Victoria
Well-known member
Aero":31mue10n said:on the other hand... i have never seen a Highland - Angus cross. send us some pictures.
Here's a picture of a cow (72) whose half pure Red Angus and half pure Highland in her summer clothes. This was taken a couple years ago. Her mother is the Highland in the picture to the left. 72 is now 13 and having another calf for us this year, never missed once. Sometimes the babies are a little hairy but they are big and she pays her feed bill and more. I love those fuzzy Highland ears.
Victoria
Well-known member
UGGH - Excuse my spelling, it should be who is not whose.
Victoria
Well-known member
Gliderider":b63hjkzd said:Hi, I'm new to this board and new to the cattle game. Well I have two 6 month of calves I've had since week one, but we want to get into it a little deeper.
I have a few question I know ya'll will think dumb, but I'll ask them anyway.
1. I am purchasing a young Scottish Highland bull and I have horses. I know he won't have horns yet but when he does get them, I worry about turning out the horses with him and the (soon to be) others. I know cows aren't as dominate as horses but I worry that one of the cows will turn it's head to fast and gore a horse. Has anyone here had a problem similar to this?
2. I have a neighbor with a large angus bull that is next door, in fact him and his girls are right across the driveway from my front pasture. There is ony two electric fences and 50ft seperating them. When I get my girls, and they go into heat, to I have to worry about the neighbors bulls coming to visit? Should I worry about my bull's saftey, since my bull will be so much smaller? Mine will have his own girls and the neighbors has his own girls.
3. How do I find out the weight of my cattle, if I don't have a scale or can't haul them to a scale? I have a weight tape for the horses, will that work ?
4. Since we are just starting off, we can only afford a bull and a couple of unrelated heifers. When we get the calves on the ground do we breed back to the bull or try and trade for unrelated heifers(if that's what we get) I don't really want to line breed, but we need to build up our herd. Could this cause problems? What would you recommend?
Ok I have a few more, but this is long enough for now. Thanks for any help you can give me.
We've had Highland bulls with horses. Never had a problem with the bull - the horses were always boss. Same with the Highland cows. Our Highlands have never been aggressive with their horns even to other cows. They are the low cows of the herd, mind you they've always had lots to eat, if pickings were slim they might decide to use those horns.
Depends on the bull. We had a Red Angus bull could put him fence to fence on a three strand barb-wire fence with heifers on the other side and he never even looked at them. If they weren't his herd he wasn't interested. Other bulls will go through any fence you can build. I don't think you want to take the chance.
Weigh tapes are not always accurate. If you are registering them the society will not accpet a weigh tape, only a proper scale. At least that was how the Canadian Highland society did it when we were registering them.
I wouldn't breed daughter to father, that isn't linebreeding, that is inbreeding and you'd be asking for trouble.
Good luck on your venture!
Gliderider":1sfblie6 said:
Gliderider, there are always exceptions to the rules on bulls. You asked our opinion and many of us suggested you are heading for a wreck with the neighbors bull. Now, he may have a rare exception and not pay any attention to your herd (yeah right). From what I have read here most of us are just saying, better to be safe than sorry. You could just stay with what you have for a fence and keep Lutalyse around just in case.
Oh, do a serach on "neighbors bull". You will see I just had a neighbors bull jump a 5 foot fence to get to one of my replacement heifers. Electric won't bother them once they leave the ground. This was a Black Angus bull. ;-)
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
GENERALLY, a 5 strand electric fence should keep your cows in & neighbors cattle out.
But, part of the reason everyone is so skeptical is that you said the neighbors bull/cattle already has been on your place. Did they go thru their fence AND yours also??? Or were they in your yard & your fence kept them out of your pastures?
I have a bull that 1 strand will keep him in. But, if he is right next to females that could cycle, and he can put his chin on their butt over the fence, I guarantee you he will totally forget about the fence & WILL mount that cow. So I just put up a 1 strand temp fence 5 feet away and that's all I need. But every animal is DIFFERENT.
Electric fence is USUALLY all that is needed, but again, there has to be a "buffer zone" maintained between breeds. If your neighbors fence is not good enough to keep his bull in and he can get right up next to your females - not much can keep most animals apart.
Females need to be about 14 months old prior to breeding, and bulls are usually able to breed by the same age. BUT, Highland cattle mature much slower. I don't think they breed heifers until they are 2 years old, so I would ASSUME a HL bull will also be slow developing sexually.
But, part of the reason everyone is so skeptical is that you said the neighbors bull/cattle already has been on your place. Did they go thru their fence AND yours also??? Or were they in your yard & your fence kept them out of your pastures?
I have a bull that 1 strand will keep him in. But, if he is right next to females that could cycle, and he can put his chin on their butt over the fence, I guarantee you he will totally forget about the fence & WILL mount that cow. So I just put up a 1 strand temp fence 5 feet away and that's all I need. But every animal is DIFFERENT.
Electric fence is USUALLY all that is needed, but again, there has to be a "buffer zone" maintained between breeds. If your neighbors fence is not good enough to keep his bull in and he can get right up next to your females - not much can keep most animals apart.
Females need to be about 14 months old prior to breeding, and bulls are usually able to breed by the same age. BUT, Highland cattle mature much slower. I don't think they breed heifers until they are 2 years old, so I would ASSUME a HL bull will also be slow developing sexually.
OP
OP
Gliderider
Well-known member
Hey Thanks for all the replies, I understand that this is everyones opinion, I don't take offense to anything anyone has to say except when they say I'm being irresponsible for something that isn't even my fault. I value your opinions as longtime cattle owners, and been there done that kind of people. (I watched a while before I joined so I knew what I was getting into. )
Now I'll try to answer the questions posed.
JSV- The neighbors cows had part of the fence down, of course the cows found it. I have only two strand in my back pasture and I think one of those was down and my fencer was off. I had been making repairs earlier that day, but wasn't finished. Their pasture was also overgrazed so they didn't have alot to eat. I had plenty, and the horses didn't mind sharing. Occasionally one or two of his cows will get out. We aren't sure how, most of the time the fence is still intact. They never go anywhere just up and down the driveway and if my front pasture is open...in there.
There is two fences (mine and his) and 50ft in between the two pastures, so I don't share a fenceline with him. My back pasture is out of sight of his, but blocked by some trees and it's several hundred feet away, maybe 1/5 of a mile.
Victoria- What an adorable picture! That's what I thought about the linebreeding, but didn't want to say inbreeding in case someone makes it a normal practice. What would be considered linebreeding then?
The neighbors bull is actually really calm and gentle, but he's so huge I'm still scared of him. I won't even enter his pasture when they are in there. Better safe than sorry. Maybe he'll be fine with his girls.
I know most highland breeders won't breed heifers until age two so I planned on that, I just didn't know when the bull could start breeding. I know in horses colts can be fertile at 6 months but of course you wouldn't want to breed them then. Just the general age to let the bull breed.
mdmdogs3-
) Now I'll try to answer the questions posed.
JSV- The neighbors cows had part of the fence down, of course the cows found it. I have only two strand in my back pasture and I think one of those was down and my fencer was off. I had been making repairs earlier that day, but wasn't finished. Their pasture was also overgrazed so they didn't have alot to eat. I had plenty, and the horses didn't mind sharing. Occasionally one or two of his cows will get out. We aren't sure how, most of the time the fence is still intact. They never go anywhere just up and down the driveway and if my front pasture is open...in there.
There is two fences (mine and his) and 50ft in between the two pastures, so I don't share a fenceline with him. My back pasture is out of sight of his, but blocked by some trees and it's several hundred feet away, maybe 1/5 of a mile.
Victoria- What an adorable picture! That's what I thought about the linebreeding, but didn't want to say inbreeding in case someone makes it a normal practice. What would be considered linebreeding then?
The neighbors bull is actually really calm and gentle, but he's so huge I'm still scared of him. I won't even enter his pasture when they are in there. Better safe than sorry.
Maybe he'll be fine with his girls.I know most highland breeders won't breed heifers until age two so I planned on that, I just didn't know when the bull could start breeding. I know in horses colts can be fertile at 6 months but of course you wouldn't want to breed them then. Just the general age to let the bull breed.
mdmdogs3-
Thanks, something else I need to worry about ;-) If you can get your bull on the equiptment, let me know. I have a percheron mare that can come join you, she'll jump a 4ft fence flatfooted, standing right in front of it. :roll:
Victoria
Well-known member
Gliderider,
You should see 72 now. She's due to calve in 3 weeks and looks ready to explode. Starting to get that duck walk.
I've been reading up a lot lately about linebreeding and inbreeding. Actually any linebreeding can be considered inbreeding. But most people use the term inbreeding to imply close matings and linebreeding to imply a more distant relationship. Close breeding involves close relatives - including parent/offspring, brother/sister, half-brother/half-sister.
Close breeding can produce some extremely great calves but it can also produce some disastrous results.
Linebreeding is involving matings of cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents etc. The chance of disastrous results is less because there are less shared genes. The common ancestor be an outstanding animal as their good points will be emphasized but their flaws could be as well so you certainly don't want a lot of flaws. Once you get into a Great Grandparent/Grandparent relationship or more distant relationship the probability of the calf inheriting identical alleles
is negligible.
You should see 72 now. She's due to calve in 3 weeks and looks ready to explode. Starting to get that duck walk.
I've been reading up a lot lately about linebreeding and inbreeding. Actually any linebreeding can be considered inbreeding. But most people use the term inbreeding to imply close matings and linebreeding to imply a more distant relationship. Close breeding involves close relatives - including parent/offspring, brother/sister, half-brother/half-sister.
Close breeding can produce some extremely great calves but it can also produce some disastrous results.
Linebreeding is involving matings of cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparents etc. The chance of disastrous results is less because there are less shared genes. The common ancestor be an outstanding animal as their good points will be emphasized but their flaws could be as well so you certainly don't want a lot of flaws. Once you get into a Great Grandparent/Grandparent relationship or more distant relationship the probability of the calf inheriting identical alleles
is negligible.
Victoria
Well-known member
Oh BTW, about the fence, you're right about being safe. I'd do all I could to keep that bull out, since he's been at your place before (missed that in my first reading ). I've been trying to remember when our Highland bulls were mature enough to breed, I was a kid when we had them so I don't remember. I'lll ask my mother at work today. Someone else who has Highlands will probably help you at that though.
A respect of others bulls is not a bad thing. ;-)
). I've been trying to remember when our Highland bulls were mature enough to breed, I was a kid when we had them so I don't remember. I'lll ask my mother at work today. Someone else who has Highlands will probably help you at that though.A respect of others bulls is not a bad thing. ;-)
I use the beef cattle tape frequently and have found that a new tape is more accurate than an older stretched tape.
Of course your cattle have to be roped and stand still to be taped. The advantage of halter training.
A more accurate method is to take your truck & trailer--empty-- to a truck weigh scale station and get the empty weight and then return with your steers in it for a loaded weight.
There are several weigh scales within 10 miles of the farm here and we get weigh tapes on our truckload of sold animals BEFORE delivery. Well worth $$ the effort.
Of course your cattle have to be roped and stand still to be taped. The advantage of halter training.
A more accurate method is to take your truck & trailer--empty-- to a truck weigh scale station and get the empty weight and then return with your steers in it for a loaded weight.
There are several weigh scales within 10 miles of the farm here and we get weigh tapes on our truckload of sold animals BEFORE delivery. Well worth $$ the effort.
Check out these two links. They have a world of good info on Highlands.
http://www.thorbardinranch.com/index.html
http://www.cruachan.com.au/index.htm
Since you do not seem to be in any rush to breed your heifers (what age are they?) why not wait on buying a bull for a while and shop around a bit? Being new to cattle it is going to be hard for you to tell if a 2 month old is going to grow up to be the kind of bull you want for breeding. For that matter it would be hard for most people to tell! I am guessing that you are going to leave it with its mom until it is weaned 7-8 month old. That gives you alot of time to look around at other animals and get a feel for what a good breeding bull should look like. Whatever you do make sure you let it know who is boss and give it a healthy respect for you. DO NOT MAKE IT YOUR FRIEND OR PET!! As far as the angus bull hurting yours it could sure happen while he is young but once he is mature I would worry more about the Angus. Seeing a Highland bull use his horns in a fight will really put the fear of God in you quick! :shock: :shock: .
Your best bet is never to let them fight in the first place. You will have to see what his temperment is like and go from there as to if you need to upgrade your fence. I have a WB bull that will go up and down the fence rutting in the dirt and urinating on himself but never trys to go through it. The best thing thou is to take the advice on this post and keep your "girls" as far away from that Angus bull as you can until their bred. Or better yet dont buy a bull now just let that Angus breed them and then you can buy a real good 2 yr old Highland bull next year with the money from the calves ;-) .
http://www.thorbardinranch.com/index.html
http://www.cruachan.com.au/index.htm
Since you do not seem to be in any rush to breed your heifers (what age are they?) why not wait on buying a bull for a while and shop around a bit? Being new to cattle it is going to be hard for you to tell if a 2 month old is going to grow up to be the kind of bull you want for breeding. For that matter it would be hard for most people to tell! I am guessing that you are going to leave it with its mom until it is weaned 7-8 month old. That gives you alot of time to look around at other animals and get a feel for what a good breeding bull should look like. Whatever you do make sure you let it know who is boss and give it a healthy respect for you. DO NOT MAKE IT YOUR FRIEND OR PET!! As far as the angus bull hurting yours it could sure happen while he is young but once he is mature I would worry more about the Angus. Seeing a Highland bull use his horns in a fight will really put the fear of God in you quick! :shock: :shock: .
Your best bet is never to let them fight in the first place. You will have to see what his temperment is like and go from there as to if you need to upgrade your fence. I have a WB bull that will go up and down the fence rutting in the dirt and urinating on himself but never trys to go through it. The best thing thou is to take the advice on this post and keep your "girls" as far away from that Angus bull as you can until their bred. Or better yet dont buy a bull now just let that Angus breed them and then you can buy a real good 2 yr old Highland bull next year with the money from the calves ;-) .
