A few ??? for a cattle newbie

[Gliderider]

Hi, I'm new to this board and new to the cattle game. Well I have two 6 month of calves I've had since week one, but we want to get into it a little deeper.
I have a few question I know ya'll will think dumb, but I'll ask them anyway.
1. I am purchasing a young Scottish Highland bull and I have horses. I know he won't have horns yet but when he does get them, I worry about turning out the horses with him and the (soon to be) others. I know cows aren't as dominate as horses but I worry that one of the cows will turn it's head to fast and gore a horse. Has anyone here had a problem similar to this?

2. I have a neighbor with a large angus bull that is next door, in fact him and his girls are right across the driveway from my front pasture. There is ony two electric fences and 50ft seperating them. When I get my girls, and they go into heat, to I have to worry about the neighbors bulls coming to visit? Should I worry about my bull's saftey, since my bull will be so much smaller? Mine will have his own girls and the neighbors has his own girls.

3. How do I find out the weight of my cattle, if I don't have a scale or can't haul them to a scale? I have a weight tape for the horses, will that work ?

4. Since we are just starting off, we can only afford a bull and a couple of unrelated heifers. When we get the calves on the ground do we breed back to the bull or try and trade for unrelated heifers(if that's what we get) I don't really want to line breed, but we need to build up our herd. Could this cause problems? What would you recommend?

Ok I have a few more, but this is long enough for now. Thanks for any help you can give me.

 

[Bullbuyer]

I'll tackle one or two of these:
First - If you're buying a Highland Bull then this must be a pet / 'something to eat the grass' undertaking and not a for-profit adventure.
I have had cattle that ran very well with horses and I've had an old cow or two that loved to hit the horses and vice versa. I think you'll have to play the wait and see game. I would think that the younger they are introduced - the better.
On question 3 - go to the Tractor Supply Company website - on there somewhere is how to calculate weight based on a few measurements. I honestly have no idea as to the accuracy. If you want accuracy call on an old farmer - he'll know what it weighs within a few pounds.

 

[alabama]

As a rule, you don't run horses and cows together but some horses that have been raised with cows seem to do fine. I would worry more about the horses running and herding the cattle than the cattle hurting the horse. I have seen horses run a bull through a fence. It won't take long for the horse to teach a few cows respect by kicking the stew out of them.

 

[flaboy+]

Hi, I'm new to this board and new to the cattle game. Well I have two 6 month of calves I've had since week one, but we want to get into it a little deeper.
I have a few question I know ya'll will think dumb, but I'll ask them anyway.
1. I am purchasing a young Scottish Highland bull and I have horses. I know he won't have horns yet but when he does get them, I worry about turning out the horses with him and the (soon to be) others. I know cows aren't as dominate as horses but I worry that one of the cows will turn it's head to fast and gore a horse. Has anyone here had a problem similar to this?

2. I have a neighbor with a large angus bull that is next door, in fact him and his girls are right across the driveway from my front pasture. There is ony two electric fences and 50ft seperating them. When I get my girls, and they go into heat, to I have to worry about the neighbors bulls coming to visit? Should I worry about my bull's saftey, since my bull will be so much smaller? Mine will have his own girls and the neighbors has his own girls.

3. How do I find out the weight of my cattle, if I don't have a scale or can't haul them to a scale? I have a weight tape for the horses, will that work ?

4. Since we are just starting off, we can only afford a bull and a couple of unrelated heifers. When we get the calves on the ground do we breed back to the bull or try and trade for unrelated heifers(if that's what we get) I don't really want to line breed, but we need to build up our herd. Could this cause problems? What would you recommend?

Ok I have a few more, but this is long enough for now. Thanks for any help you can give me.

I will take a shot at this but I am sure you will get various opinions.
1. I have run horses with cows with no problems. On the other hand I had a horse that would run the cows all over the place. Depends on the horse. I would not risk putting a horse in with cattle with horns. Mine at that time were all polled.
2. Good fences make good neighbors. The Angus bull WILL come visit and most likely if there is only two strands of electric fence it won't stop him. He won't have second thoughts about hurting your bull if your bull is after the same heifer. The bull doesn't care about which heifers belong to you or not. To him is just another one to breed. I suggest a real fence in combination with the electric fence. I recommend field fence with barbed wire on the neighbors side of your post and at the top. I recommend the fence be 5 feet high with barbed wire string down the very top. I recommend electric fence up about 30 inches on both sides of your fence. My opinion is this is a wreck looking to happen eventually.
3. Buy a beef tape or have someone you trust (experienced) estimate the weight. Why do you need to know?
4. I NEVER breed a sire to a daughter. I might consider half brother to half sister but that is as far as I would go. Trade if you can. If you can't sell the heifers and buy more.

I will probably catch flack for this but I don't like to keep first calves. By this I mean the first calf a heifer has had. MY experience is they don't grow off as well as a second or third calf. Some say it's bull stuff but when I have first calves and see they are much smaller than the others that are not, it's apparent to me. This is NOT always the case but I just don't mess with first calves anymore. JMO

 

[Gliderider]

Thanks for the replies,
-I already have to 6 month old calves in with the horses and the horses don't bother them except around feeding time, and the cows wait until the horses are fed then go in the stall where they are fed. I'll just have to keep an eye on them.

-I was afraid someone would say that about the neighboring bull. He' behind a 5ft high field fence w/ barbwire on top and a string of electric on the inside top. It holds him in most of the time, occasionally they whole herd of 11 will come to visit the horses in my pasture. I have two pastures one in the front close to the neighbors, and one in the back out of site but still with in say 1/5 of a mile. If I keep the girls in the back until after heat would that be better?

-I can read a horse weight tape, is the beef tape similar? I need to know because I have a couple of young steers I'm going to sell in the next month or so and I'd like to know "about" what they are worth.

-Ok I didn't want to line breed like that, so I'll just trade or sell.

 

[flaboy+]

Thanks for the replies,
-I already have to 6 month old calves in with the horses and the horses don't bother them except around feeding time, and the cows wait until the horses are fed then go in the stall where they are fed. I'll just have to keep an eye on them.

-I was afraid someone would say that about the neighboring bull. He' behind a 5ft high field fence w/ barbwire on top and a string of electric on the inside top. It holds him in most of the time, occasionally they whole herd of 11 will come to visit the horses in my pasture. I have two pastures one in the front close to the neighbors, and one in the back out of site but still with in say 1/5 of a mile. If I keep the girls in the back until after heat would that be better?

-I can read a horse weight tape, is the beef tape similar? I need to know because I have a couple of young steers I'm going to sell in the next month or so and I'd like to know "about" what they are worth.

-Ok I didn't want to line breed like that, so I'll just trade or sell.

My experience is, most if based on the horse. I only had a problem with one.

Trust me that Angus bull WILL be a problem. I have an Angus bull that I ended up putting up 9 strands of barbed wire to keep him from getting in with the other herd/bulls when they were in adjacent fields. I put five on one side and 4 strands on the other. Sounds like your neighbors bull/cows have already visited. It will get worse with heifers in heat. Yes, having the heifers further from him will definitely help.

Never used a horse tape. Never cared much what they weighed. A beef tape wraps around just behind the front legs, all the way around.

 

[Gliderider]

Crap! I knew he was going to be a problem. I don't want angus/highlander crosses. He's a big boy too. :x Hopefully the fact that I have a 50 mile charger only around about 20 acres will help. That fence will jump up and bite you.

Horse weight tape is the same, wrap it around the barrel behind the front legs.

 

[eric]

Wow, as I read it, the neighbor has his own bull and doesnt have a fence either? Surely he isnt relying on just a strand of electric to keep in a full grown bull?? if thats the case, then one of you definately needs to build a real fence, and pronto, like before you even consider getting a bull. Why would you buy a bull when you are gonna be able to use his for free as soon as your girls come into heat? Thats just ludicrous and irresponsible on both of ya'lls part to even think about owning a bull without permanent fencing in place. Hot wires are fine for interior fencing and separating pastures, but I would never let it take the place of permanent perimeter fencing. It's hard enough keeping bulls home with real fences, you dont have a cghance with just a single wire. But then you've already experienced that, since his bull had visited your horses a few times already.

Slow down and get your fences in order before you buy more cattle

 

[Aero]

on the other hand... i have never seen a Highland - Angus cross. send us some pictures.

 

[Gliderider]

Thats just ludicrous and irresponsible on both of ya'lls part to even think about owning a bull without permanent fencing in place.

Well first of all the bull I'm purchasing is only 2 months old, so I have several months to erect proper fencing.
Second I don't want to use his angus bull when I'm breeding Scottish Highlanders. I don't want to cross at all.
If you had kept reading you would have noticed I said the neighbor has a 5ft field fence, with barbwire on the top and a string of hotwire on the inside. When his herd came visiting, his fence was down in one spot. He doesn't live there and hadn't checked it in a while. It happens. I should have clarified that.
I have 5 strands of hotwire and they keep my animals in just fine. If I have to I'll add more.

 

[Gliderider]

on the other hand... i have never seen a Highland - Angus cross. send us some pictures.

Hopefully I won't be the one to post those pictures!

 

[Gliderider]

Now that I think about it, several people around here only have one strand of hotwire up and their animals stay in. Is that because they have plenty of room and the bulls have their own herds?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Cattle with horns know EXACTLY where the end of those horns are, and they do know how to use them. Why do you think the majority of the beef industry either breeds polled cattle or DEHORN the cattle born with horns? They cause DAMAGE to other livestock, let alone the possibility of yourself getting hurt. Just imagine being out in the field and feeding them, and all of a sudden he decides to swat a fly on his side. Yup, you just got gored!
Bulls can SMELL females in heat. They don't have to see them. There are many types of permanent paremeter fences. I personnally prefer hi-tensile - electric.

 

[la4angus]

Now that I think about it, several people around here only have one strand of hotwire up and their animals stay in. Is that because they have plenty of room and the bulls have their own herds?

You and your neighbor better each find a good attorney soon. I smell a lawsuit developing over the next couple of years.

 

[Gliderider]

So you think 5 strands of electric isn't enough? It's one step down from high tensile, 14 gauge. I can replace with high tensile if needed

 

[BH]

Now that I think about it, several people around here only have one strand of hotwire up and their animals stay in. Is that because they have plenty of room and the bulls have their own herds?

A lot of time I use just one strand of elec. fence to keep in cattle. I don't use it for pasture just on milo stalks where there is no permenent fence. It is way cheaper to use Elec. fence than to erect a permanet fence that will be used only a short time each year.

As we speak, we have two bulls in with our cows on stalks, the only problems we've had so far are a few of the little calves feel a need to explore.
BTW, there aren't any of the neighbors cattle nearby

Brett

 

[Saltydawg]

I think Highland Heifers next door to an Angus bull is gonna cause problems :shock: .

I'm not as experienced as a lot of these guys but one thing I have learned......its pretty darn hard to keep a mature bull away from cycling cows/heifers.

 

[Texas PaPaw]

Thats just ludicrous and irresponsible on both of ya'lls part to even think about owning a bull without permanent fencing in place.

Well first of all the bull I'm purchasing is only 2 months old, so I have several months to erect proper fencing.
Second I don't want to use his angus bull when I'm breeding Scottish Highlanders. I don't want to cross at all.
If you had kept reading you would have noticed I said the neighbor has a 5ft field fence, with barbwire on the top and a string of hotwire on the inside. When his herd came visiting, his fence was down in one spot. He doesn't live there and hadn't checked it in a while. It happens. I should have clarified that.
I have 5 strands of hotwire and they keep my animals in just fine. If I have to I'll add more.

IMO-If you keep your 5 wire fence hot as a pistol, it should keep your cattle in and your neighbors out. If it were me, I would get the 100 mile(6 joule) fencer. As long as the fence is clean (no weeds or grass in it) the 50 mile charger should do fine, however in the summer when there is a load from weeds & grass the extra power from the more powerful fencer will make a big difference. Also disconnecting the bottom 1 or 2 wires when they have weeds or grass on them will help maintain the power on the other wires. I have a 5 wire fence with 1 offset electric wire on my side that keeps my cows/bulls separate from my neighbors cows/bulls. It is my experience that bulls will not mess with a fence with at least 3000 volts. Keeping the voltage up is the key. JMO

Regards

Brock

 

[Anonymous]

Well here goes will probably open a can of worms. But I've seen a big charolais bull walk up to a 6 strand barb wire fence with 4 strands of 14 gage electric fence on his side put his nose down and picked all of it up and walked through. This was on a 50 mile charger around 5 acres. He tore down about 8 fence post an streched wire and broke wire like it was not even there or hot. All to get to a group of heifers that was in heat go figure.

 

[Gliderider]

Icupit- I believe you. I have a percheron mare that was a whiz at lifting up the top two wires and stepping over the bottom wires and munching the grass along the driveway. (You know the grass is always greener! ) She even went to the neighbors down the road and somehow got into his pasture and he has 5 strands of high tensile electric. I'll ge get a 100 mile fencer, and cross my fingers. Though it won't really be an issue until I get the heifers, my bull won't be ready for a while.

BTW- What age do you start letting bulls...well....be bulls?