2015 & 2016 Calf Price Predictions

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Stocker Steve

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Ag Web just posted a piece stating calf prices have declined 18% from the 2014 peak, and that they may decline another 18% in 2016. Obviously many ranchers don't' believe it because they are retaining more heifers rather than cull'in more cows.
Do you believe this pricing prediction?
Is a 1/3 reduction in selling price a wreak?
Do you think there will be more herd dispersals?
 
Everybody I talk to thinks prices will be high from now on. When the cheap South America beef hits full swing as there is a lot of cattle there and plenty of pasture land it wouldn't surprise me in less than two years calves will be half price of now. They have bout burnt down the Amazon forest and converted into pasture land and the herd rebuilding that is happening in this country cattle prices have no way to go but down. Also I am sure we will sent experts, money and whatever down there to help them with their cattle.

From 1990 to 2009, while the U.S. cattle inventory declined by 5 percent, inventory increased in Brazil (by 33 percent), Uruguay (by 22 percent), and Paraguay (by 39 percent).

As a continent, South America's cattle inventory increased from being 23 percent of the world's total cattle in 1990 to 30 percent in 2009. South America has been expanding its cattle inventory for decades, but only recently has it been able to capitalize on growing global demand for beef.

If I was smart I would sell every head of cattle I have and buy back in a couple of years.

South American momentum
Looking forward, momentum is on the side of South American cattle producers.

Assuming world cattle inventory doesn't increase dramatically while population continues to grow and wealth is amassed in Asia, cattle operations in South America are likely to benefit more than in the U.S. This is for a variety of reasons, including the following facts.

Beef production is a larger part of South American economies (relatively) than in the U.S., and more of the population is involved in beef production; there is more societal and governmental support for their beef industry to be successful.
The average producer is larger and possibly more profit-driven in South America, possibly leading to more rapid improvement in production efficiencies.
Average slaughter age is decreasing in South America; this will continue to improve end-product palatability (i.e., tenderness) and efficiency, and reduce cost of production (via fewer days of maintaining an animal).
High-accuracy A.I. sires from the U.S. are already readily available in South America, and their use is becoming widespread; over time, much of their genetics will rival those in the U.S.
The percentage of inventory slaughtered annually will increase due to improved genetics, better management and younger slaughter age; more pounds of beef will be produced at a lower cost per pound.
South Americans are already much more export-driven than the U.S.; with improved end product, reduced cost, effective traceability systems and less seasonality of production (versus the U.S.), they will be increasingly competitive in export markets.
Technologies that improve efficiency – growth-promoting implants, fed antibiotics and beta-agonists – are not being embraced in South America as a result of widespread consumer concern, giving them an advantage in export markets including Europe.
Grain finishing in feedlots will continue to increase (currently it is only approximately 24 percent in Argentina, 10 percent in Brazil, and 6 percent in Uruguay), leading to heavier carcass weights, improved production efficiency and enhanced palatability.
Nationwide mandatory traceability (with near-complete producer buy-in) will continue to be implemented based on initial success in Uruguay due to its effect on beef exports.
End-product quality will continue to improve, in part due to a focus on identifying quality defects via national beef quality audits (modeled after the U.S.) that have been in place for almost a decade in places like Uruguay.
South America's forage base and temperate climate is better suited to raising cattle versus the U.S.; cost of production is hard to beat when little or no winter hay feeding is required on most of the continent.
 
personally I think we are on our way back to $500.00 5wt steer calves or at least here. I also think there will be many selling out its started already... Sales that normally have 400 head are now selling 1400 head literally.
 
It's very clear that we have allowed our govt to red tape the beef industry right into being a second class citizen behind third world countries.

So to answer the questions, I believe a third selling price reduction may be in fact an underestimate. And herd dispersals, absolutely. Plenty of late 50's early 60's year old LEGITIMATE (not hobby cattleman) who have had enough and do not have any youngsters interested enough to take over the herd.
 
Bud Williams did not worry about absolute prices because he stayed in the market and make his money on the trades. The producers that could get hurt the most next year are the ones that are retaining replacements, borrowing to expand, and/or recently bought $3000 breds.

The talking heads usually mention having a cash reserve for "buying opportunities" during a market down turn. What would be a real opportunity for your operation if there is a cattle sell off in 2016?
 
Stocker Steve":38ly3820 said:
skyhightree1":38ly3820 said:
I also think there will be many selling out its started already... Sales that normally have 400 head are now selling 1400 head literally.

Where are these cows going?
My opinion you have some that think it will end and it is time to sell and then you have others that think it will last right on and they are still paying well. One side is going to come out big time.
 
It's funny, how quick the table turns. Just a reminder anytime your riding high, your riding for a fall.
 
I think a lot of what your seeing with increased cow numbers at the barns are knee jerk reactions from people that bought in when they were on the up swing. they are selling now to break even or minimize their loss.
 
M-5":114vi8pk said:
I think a lot of what your seeing with increased cow numbers at the barns are knee jerk reactions from people that bought in when they were on the up swing. they are selling now to break even or minimize their loss.

Completely agree
 
It is late September. Normally a lot of calves move to town in October. I think people who would normally sell in October are moving their calves early because they see a falling market. I think by late October the volume of calves at the sales will be down.
 
M-5":tpqlojpc said:
I think a lot of what your seeing with increased cow numbers at the barns are knee jerk reactions from people that bought in when they were on the up swing. they are selling now to break even or minimize their loss.

Excellent point.

Just wonder how the changing world economic climate will impact the 'American' cattle cycle. With SA ramping up beef production, and having FULL support from their govts, and our govt doing everything it can to make it difficult for the American cattleman to succeed, just seems like it's going to be awful tight profit margins in years to come....barring a major disease outbreak or natural disaster in SA....
 
M-5":nzvkcha5 said:
I think a lot of what your seeing with increased cow numbers at the barns are knee jerk reactions from people that bought in when they were on the up swing. they are selling now to break even or minimize their loss.
Same thing happen in 2008 in the stock market.
You know who profited in that deal...the buyers, not the sellers.

Commodity markets work on a wave.
Some times up, and some times down.
The one's that survive the wave are the one's that don't react to fear, or jumps in the markets, and are able to tighten their inputs during the low points.
Some are even able to expand, and thrive during those low points.


So what are you going to do?
Adapt and survive?
Or break down for fear of the unknown?

For me i'm just going to keep on, keepin on, and let the Lord handle it.
 
I could see $1.75-2.00/cwt for 5wt's as perfectly reasonable.. $3 was nuts and not sustainable for any length of time.

Remember what the bible said about the 7 fat cows followed by 7 thin cows... not having a bit of a stash (nevermind OWING) when the 7 thin cows come along is setting yourself up to starve.
 
jltrent":2pf688u6 said:
Everybody I talk to thinks prices will be high from now on. When the cheap South America beef hits full swing as there is a lot of cattle there and plenty of pasture land it wouldn't surprise me in less than two years calves will be half price of now. They have bout burnt down the Amazon forest and converted into pasture land and the herd rebuilding that is happening in this country cattle prices have no way to go but down. Also I am sure we will sent experts, money and whatever down there to help them with their cattle.

From 1990 to 2009, while the U.S. cattle inventory declined by 5 percent, inventory increased in Brazil (by 33 percent), Uruguay (by 22 percent), and Paraguay (by 39 percent).
The
As a continent, South America's cattle inventory increased from being 23 percent of the world's total cattle in 1990 to 30 percent in 2009. South America has been expanding its cattle inventory for decades, but only recently has it been able to capitalize on growing global demand for beef.

If I was smart I would sell every head of cattle I have and buy back in a couple of years.

South American momentum
Looking forward, momentum is on the side of South American cattle producers.

Assuming world cattle inventory doesn't increase dramatically while population continues to grow and wealth is amassed in Asia, cattle operations in South America are likely to benefit more than in the U.S. This is for a variety of reasons, including the following facts.

Beef production is a larger part of South American economies (relatively) than in the U.S., and more of the population is involved in beef production; there is more societal and governmental support for their beef industry to be successful.
The average producer is larger and possibly more profit-driven in South America, possibly leading to more rapid improvement in production efficiencies.
Average slaughter age is decreasing in South America; this will continue to improve end-product palatability (i.e., tenderness) and efficiency, and reduce cost of production (via fewer days of maintaining an animal).
High-accuracy A.I. sires from the U.S. are already readily available in South America, and their use is becoming widespread; over time, much of their genetics will rival those in the U.S.
The percentage of inventory slaughtered annually will increase due to improved genetics, better management and younger slaughter age; more pounds of beef will be produced at a lower cost per pound.
South Americans are already much more export-driven than the U.S.; with improved end product, reduced cost, effective traceability systems and less seasonality of production (versus the U.S.), they will be increasingly competitive in export markets.
Technologies that improve efficiency – growth-promoting implants, fed antibiotics and beta-agonists – are not being embraced in South America as a result of widespread consumer concern, giving them an advantage in export markets including Europe.
Grain finishing in feedlots will continue to increase (currently it is only approximately 24 percent in Argentina, 10 percent in Brazil, and 6 percent in Uruguay), leading to heavier carcass weights, improved production efficiency and enhanced palatability.
Nationwide mandatory traceability (with near-complete producer buy-in) will continue to be implemented based on initial success in Uruguay due to its effect on beef exports.
End-product quality will continue to improve, in part due to a focus on identifying quality defects via national beef quality audits (modeled after the U.S.) that have been in place for almost a decade in places like Uruguay.
South America's forage base and temperate climate is better suited to raising cattle versus the U.S.; cost of production is hard to beat when little or no winter hay feeding is required on most of the continent.



Very good post jltrent. Anyone paying attn can read the writing on the wall. Goes back to what CB was posting earlier in the year and taking some heat for. Looks to me like what he was saying sure holds water now. Back 40 cow/calfs aren't going to cut it.. better be pushing for a HIGH Quality, efficient animal to make it in this world wide race now.
 
It wasn't long ago when a calf that brought more than a $1.00 a pound it was a good-un. Sure glad I don't have any longhorn influence in my herd. We're set up where a $1.00 lb. can do what needs to be done.
 
sim.-ang.king":oarge9ut said:
M-5":oarge9ut said:
I think a lot of what your seeing with increased cow numbers at the barns are knee jerk reactions from people that bought in when they were on the up swing. they are selling now to break even or minimize their loss.
Same thing happen in 2008 in the stock market.
You know who profited in that deal...the buyers, not the sellers.

Commodity markets work on a wave.
Some times up, and some times down.
The one's that survive the wave are the one's that don't react to fear, or jumps in the markets, and are able to tighten their inputs during the low points.
Some are even able to expand, and thrive during those low points.


So what are you going to do?
Adapt and survive?
Or break down for fear of the unknown?

For me i'm just going to keep on, keepin on, and let the Lord handle it.

That's what I'm gonna try to do. I've only been at it coming up on two years, so I've been trying to keep things in perspective as to what prices could be. At the same time, I'm trying to get things setup now with the money calves have brought to not have to buy anything I'll need later, lights in the old barn, possibly a scale, installing more waters I got bought cheap, etc. I'm thinking my next calf crop (third), if I'm fortunate enough to get any raised, will clear my line of credit for cows I bought two years ago and last summer. Plan is to start keeping heifers next year. I'm at half step now, hopefully be at full cap. in '19 (35-45 hd) after implementing at least some resemblance of rotational grazing.
My Dad and Grandpa told me if you're gonna be in the cattle business, be in the business, don't be flip flopping in and out. Get you a core herd and hang in there. Sock it back or buy equipment when you can, and tough it out when you can't.
 
talltimber":3h6yshra said:
sim.-ang.king":3h6yshra said:
M-5":3h6yshra said:
I think a lot of what your seeing with increased cow numbers at the barns are knee jerk reactions from people that bought in when they were on the up swing. they are selling now to break even or minimize their loss.
Same thing happen in 2008 in the stock market.
You know who profited in that deal...the buyers, not the sellers.

Commodity markets work on a wave.
Some times up, and some times down.
The one's that survive the wave are the one's that don't react to fear, or jumps in the markets, and are able to tighten their inputs during the low points.
Some are even able to expand, and thrive during those low points.


So what are you going to do?
Adapt and survive?
Or break down for fear of the unknown?

For me i'm just going to keep on, keepin on, and let the Lord handle it.

That's what I'm gonna try to do. I've only been at it coming up on two years, so I've been trying to keep things in perspective as to what prices could be. At the same time, I'm trying to get things setup now with the money calves have brought to not have to buy anything I'll need later, lights in the old barn, possibly a scale, installing more waters I got bought cheap, etc. I'm thinking my next calf crop (third), if I'm fortunate enough to get any raised, will clear my line of credit for cows I bought two years ago and last summer. Plan is to start keeping heifers next year. I'm at half step now, hopefully be at full cap. in '19 (35-45 hd) after implementing at least some resemblance of rotational grazing.
My Dad and Grandpa told me if you're gonna be in the cattle business, be in the business, don't be flip flopping in and out. Get you a core herd and hang in there. Sock it back or buy equipment when you can, and tough it out when you can't.

That sounds like a good plan. Using extra capital earned at the high points, to lower cost later when your having to cut inputs. Lord willing, your setting up to come out above water.
 

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