15 mo old bulls for breeding

[angus9259]

I'm sure this has been discussed a hundred times, but how many of you all use 15 mo old bulls for breeding? It's always seemed to me that they just don't have the height to make the connection properly so I use 2 year old bulls. Perhaps that's a bad impression on my part. I also have an impression that if a 15 mo old bull has the height, he's either been fed hard (which sometimes makes it worse because you can end up with a short legged fat bull) or gonna be too large a frame for me to want built into my herd.

I can see using them on same sized/aged heifers - not really my question - it's about using them on mature cows.

Are my perceptions inaccurate?

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

My experience is the size isn't really an issue unless the bulls tiny and cows big, but they are typically very dumb and not sure how to handle breeding a herd.

Two years back I had a 14mo bull in with a group of heifers I watched him spend all day breeding the same heifer repeatedly while half the rest of the group was in heat and mounting one another.

FF that bull to now and that same bull bred 35 synced cows in 1 cycle last fall. So with age came some learning. Ha

 

[coachg]

In my book that’s a little young but he could service 4-5 if he can do the deed . I wouldn’t want to breed him to too many because it could affect his mature size .

 

[W.B.]

Do it every year here. Mostly use the yearlings on second calvers but do use some on occasion with the mature cows. If yearling bulls are developed properly they will get the job done. Most figure 15 mo old bull is good for about 15 cows.

 

[chaded]

Do it all the time. In fact I have used 13 month old bulls. I have done this on up to 12-15 cows. Never had an issue with it. It’s funny because if you had asked if it was safe to keep an 8 month old bull in with cows and him not breed people would say to watch out because he’d breed your cows. Now a 15 month old can’t get the job done.

 

[regolith]

I use them at that age in the dairy herd, and they get the job done. Reckon they need one to learn which end to approach but they'll still get that first one preg.
They can give you plenty of reasons to worry if you watch them long enough. But they generally manage to reach, if I think he's ignoring one I'll draft that cow put them in a pen together for 5 minutes that's long enough. And if they're getting more than a cow a day I'd aim to switch them out for a fresh bull as soon as, or before, they get tired.

Frankly my biggest fear running them with a dairy herd would be wrecked feet. And I don't think I've had a yearling with wrecked feet since I started using yearlings... they wear their toes clean through on the concrete then if the worn sole reaches blood/quick it'll take weeks to grow back *if* it doesn't get infected; I've seen that with older bulls several years ago.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Now a 15 month old can’t get the job done.

It's not that they can't get the job done. For me it's can they cover all the cows in short order. No doubt given enough time he will get them all, but can a 15mo cover say 15 cows in 21 days? Some can but most are like a teenage boys and get distracted by the first vagina he sees.

 

[Silver]

I use yearling (15 mo. ) bulls every year on mature cows, I figure them for 20 cows, and mature bulls for 25 cows.

 

[Brute 23]

Got 15 mo old Angus bull on F1 and other Brahman cross cattle right now. They will do a back flip if they have to.

Ive had them as young as 13mo on mature cows. Not ideal but I have done it.

 

[Ky hills]

It’s very common here for people to turn out 15 month old bulls with cows. I’ve even turned them out a little younger.
If you have a frame 4 or maybe even 5 Angus or Hereford bull turned out with big tall Brahman cows or very large framed other cows height might be an issue. Average height 15 month old bull should be ok on average height cows.
I would think any mainstream Angus bull of that age should be capable of breeding an average sized cow,
I did have a shorter than I like Hereford bull one time that I questioned whether or not he could reach a large framed 2000# Hereford cow I had at the time. She didn’t get bred.
Our vet says there’s not much need to worry about the height of the bull in most cases as long as there isn’t a huge size difference as they will figure it out.
I’ve noticed over the years young bulls will often follow a cow for a a day or so before as she’s just coming in heat and for a day or so afterwards. Most will stop that as they get older and just follow for a day or so instead of 3.
I will add that I do like to supplement young bulls with some feed, while they are out with cows, because they are still growing, and walking off a lot of pounds.

 

[angus9259]

Thanks folks!

 

[ClinchValley86]

I let a 14 month old breed a dozen heifers this past fall. Gave them some feed every other day with their hay and everyone stayed in decent shape. I never did see him breed but did see him courting. These were not sync'd.

Been loaning a 15 month old out the past couple years to breed 10 at a time. 3 months later he goes and breeds another 10 or 12. So far theyve all calved pretty dang close together.

If he has the drive, i say itll be ok. Just my experience limited opinion.

 

[wbvs58]

They have a much greater capacity than most people think. I think that lack of experience is more than made up for by their enthusiasm and height is never a worry. They grow into the job real fast. Virgin 2 year olds have to learn the ropes as well.

Ken

 

[Travlr]

They have a much greater capacity than most people think. I think that lack of experience is more than made up for by their enthusiasm and height is never a worry. They grow into the job real fast. Virgin 2 year olds have to learn the ropes as well.

Ken

I put a young bull in with 42 cows once. I don't remember his exact age, but it was under two. He settled all of them.

I figure any young male animal is similar to a young human male. Give them three months with 42 willing females and they may have lost some weight, but I think the results would have been a foregone conclusion. Besides, conception rates in bovines are far higher. A bull can probably settle more than one cow a day for the first estrus cycle, and after that he's got more time to recover. At the end of three months he's pretty much on vacation for the last several weeks.

 

[SBMF 2015]

I put a young bull in with 42 cows once. I don't remember his exact age, but it was under two. He settled all of them.

I figure any young male animal is similar to a young human male. Give them three months with 42 willing females and they may have lost some weight, but I think the results would have been a foregone conclusion. Besides, conception rates in bovines are far higher. A bull can probably settle more than one cow a day for the first estrus cycle, and after that he's got more time to recover. At the end of three months he's pretty much on vacation for the last several weeks.

I have always been told a good bull with good capacity and a high libido can cover a cow every seven minutes.

 

[Warren Allison]

I'm sure this has been discussed a hundred times, but how many of you all use 15 mo old bulls for breeding? It's always seemed to me that they just don't have the height to make the connection properly so I use 2 year old bulls. Perhaps that's a bad impression on my part. I also have an impression that if a 15 mo old bull has the height, he's either been fed hard (which sometimes makes it worse because you can end up with a short legged fat bull) or gonna be too large a frame for me to want built into my herd.

I can see using them on same sized/aged heifers - not really my question - it's about using them on mature cows.

Are my perceptions inaccurate?

It depends on the breed. British breeds like Angus, and Criolo breeds like Corriente, mature at an earlier age. 15 mos should be fine. Continentals like Simmental or Charolais, tend to be a little slower at reaching sexual maturity, Bos Indicus mature much later, and I usually want a Brahma bull to be 2 yrs old.

 

[Little Joe]

I’ve thought about doing this since I’m swapping to AI, 14 days after timed AI, turning a 14 month old bull retained from previous year for clean up. Either offer him fr sale as commercial bull or band him and feed out afterwards, only down side is he might end up breeding a half sister or his mama but probably still a better deal than having open cows. Actually have this young fella in mind for that, 5 months old in the picture, raised by a 10 year old cow through the winter.

 

[Travlr]

I’ve thought about doing this since I’m swapping to AI, 14 days after timed AI, turning a 14 month old bull retained from previous year for clean up. Either offer him fr sale as commercial bull or band him and feed out afterwards, only down side is he might end up breeding a half sister or his mama but probably still a better deal than having open cows. Actually have this young fella in mind for that, 5 months old in the picture, raised by a 10 year old cow through the winter.

Hard to see what you are working with at that angle... Better pic?

 

[Brute 23]

I’ve thought about doing this since I’m swapping to AI, 14 days after timed AI, turning a 14 month old bull retained from previous year for clean up. Either offer him fr sale as commercial bull or band him and feed out afterwards, only down side is he might end up breeding a half sister or his mama but probably still a better deal than having open cows. Actually have this young fella in mind for that, 5 months old in the picture, raised by a 10 year old cow through the winter.

Im doing this right now with a bull calf born last Jan out of a pretty good cow. I have a place we only keep a few cows. In years past I have turned out steers and heifers with them summer/ fall but with the drought and high prices all the calves were sold early. It was very hard to justify a purchase so my other option was to rent which is $1500. The other expenses like hauling, vet, and time are kind of wash between my bull and the rental.

Just roughly in my head I had to buy the bull from myself for about $2000 at the time. It cost me about $250 (actually less but easy math and allows for misc) to hold him the roughly 8mo, so $2250 total. He saved me $1500 in rental, Im at $750 now.

He just got turned out and will breed for 90 days. Plan is to catch him back, castrate, let him fatten back up, and sell before winter at around $2500. Hopefully that would put me plus $1500, allowing another $250 in expenses post breeding.

The kicker is we have a small place in town we cant do much else with that was perfect for holding this bull, another bull, and 2 steers, for a short time.

The other thing is this bull is super chill. We just back up to a gate and can load him. He also tested really good on his BSE. It will be real hard to sell him if every thing goes good. LoL

This bull represented the least amount of risk out of all the options... holding, renting, and buying. It also had the most upside... on paper. It was hard to make that up side back up off of a better, more expensive bull, on so few cows.

I think your plan to AI then clean up with a reasonable bull is great. I would have done the same thing myself in this situation, if I had the ability.

We will see how this deal actually turns out when the real world info comes in. If I could rent this bull out in the fall for a semi-reasonable amount, l would probably hold him. Or do a sell deal in the fall with option to buy back in the spring.

Like I said in the othe post, I also didnt band another calf born first of this year just in case this bull gets sold in the fall.

... and my bull is in with his mother right now and the herd where he was born. I am not worried about it.

 

[Brute 23]

That made my brain glitch. No sure my words match the numbers my brain sees in my head.