New ground for pasture..i mowed it, but have briars, hardwood coming back..

Gather App
UnlistMe
Inventry
@RNW, Your location in North Mississippi has EVERYTHING to do with the suggestions you are getting here. My experience and training put me in an odd place here or give me a unique perspective on what you are dealing with. I'm not sure how far north you you are, but clover has been mentioned her for you to consider. Taking into account your location, I'll ask this: Is clover really even much of a forage consideration or nitrogen source where you are? In other words, I know that south of a certain point, somewhere through the north half of MS, GA, AL, SC, clover tends to 'peter out'. Brush can become dominant and actually somewhat aggressive and difficult to contend with, without use of herbicides. @simme and @Warren Allison are both in GA and have pretty good perspectives. @RDFF is very knowledgeable and has great ideas. Realize though he is in MN.

Avoidance of blanket spraying the entire field with 2-4D is preferable, but may have to be done based on the level of brush invasion that has occurred. (a picture would help, or even a couple pictures). Spot spraying is preferred over blanket spraying and will be needed beyond a doubt for a period of time if not indefinitely after an initial blanket spraying. If you want/need legumes in your pasture, there are alternatives to clover. There are some alfalfa varieties that are more heat tolerant now, and perennial peanut may be a possibility as well.
 
Mark Reynolds said:
@RNW, Your location in North Mississippi has EVERYTHING to do with the suggestions you are getting here. My experience and training put me in an odd place here or give me a unique perspective on what you are dealing with. I'm not sure how far north you you are, but clover has been mentioned her for you to consider. Taking into account your location, I'll ask this: Is clover really even much of a forage consideration or nitrogen source where you are? In other words, I know that south of a certain point, somewhere through the north half of MS, GA, AL, SC, clover tends to 'peter out'. Brush can become dominant and actually somewhat aggressive and difficult to contend with, without use of herbicides. @simme and @Warren Allison are both in GA and have pretty good perspectives. @RDFF is very knowledgeable and has great ideas. Realize though he is in MN.

Avoidance of blanket spraying the entire field with 2-4D is preferable, but may have to be done based on the level of brush invasion that has occurred. (a picture would help, or even a couple pictures). Spot spraying is preferred over blanket spraying and will be needed beyond a doubt for a period of time if not indefinitely after an initial blanket spraying. If you want/need legumes in your pasture, there are alternatives to clover. There are some alfalfa varieties that are more heat tolerant now, and perennial peanut may be a possibility as well.
Click to expand...
@Mark Reynolds is precisely right. Context (location) matters. Issues one faces, though similar, may present differently in different regions. And all are tools in the toolbox that may be available to you, and may be necessary to consider the use of. All also have consequences. I don't think that any of us would entirely rule out the use of chemotherapy "just because it's a poison", even though we know that..., if we are diagnosed with cancer. We would at least consider its use. But I also believe that none of us would opt to take chemotherapy "prophylactically" to prevent cancer from impacting us either... the consequences of that choice would be too severe. You have to define clearly what your goal is, and then consider which tool will get you to your goal most appropriately. And even that "appropriately" may be defined differently for each producer.

If you have a mature forest, and your goal is to achieve a bare field, clear cutting is one solution to getting there quickly. So are broadcast herbicides, though that alone will obviously take alot longer to get to that bare field. Broadcast herbicide, plus fire following defoliation could get you there faster, but not as fast as clear cutting and then grubbing and root raking, etc. Cattle of course too "could" theoretically get you there... but it'd probably take a century or more, by eliminating any regrowth, and then the older forest will eventually die away because of attrition.

If you're already "at" a "field" status (large trees/brush are non-existent), cattle could potentially get you there a whole lot quicker. And they can be a very effective tool toward that goal, if managed appropriately. However, if the woody plants are above the reach of the animals (they can't defoliate the plant), they'll not likely be very effective at eliminating them in the short-term. And of course, herbicides can help to eliminate the currently growing unwanted plants, so the the animals then can be primarily focused on their regrowth.

ALL tools can be effective if used judiciously. All tools also have their "side effects". So does the HOW of the use of that tool (different rates of herbicide, different application strategies of a herbicide (spot or broadcast, etc.). Set stocking, mob grazing, rotational grazing, length of rest periods, how short or aggressively one grazes, animal density, type of animal, ...it ALL comes into play to generate different results. As has been stated previously... in the words of Jim Gerrish... "It Depends".
 
FYI... those woody plants contain higher levels of tannins... which act as a natural dewormer. Diversity of species in the pasture to the rescue... AGAIN. As mentioned in the "Stocking rates and grazing plans" post... diversity of plant species vs. "just grass" (mono-culture) also results in reduced mineral supplementation requirements.
 
I would be doing every thing I can to burn that pasture and then find out what the cows will and won't eat. You will add feed value and control alot of these woody plants at a cheaper cost than chemicals. If stuff makes it past the fire and the grazing then you can address it individually with spray.
 
Brute 23 said:
I would be doing every thing I can to burn that pasture and then find out what the cows will and won't eat. You will add feed value and control alot of these woody plants at a cheaper cost than chemicals. If stuff makes it past the fire and the grazing then you can address it individually with spray.
Click to expand...

I like that idea. And concentrate some extra heat on the tree stumps so they aren't poking up.
 
Goldfinch said:
Good question. I don't think it is a simple answer and I probably don't know the right one. However I would not allow my cattle to graze it.

A similar question:
Was the atomic bomb safe? Think about it.

24D is one of the active ingredients in Agent Orange. An estimated 1 million people have died from the use of Agent Orange in Vietnam alone. Approximately half of that number were US veterans.

Both the a-bomb and 24D were developed as weapons of war and both were/are used to solve a problem that is hard to control. Weeds in pasture are a problem and so are Kamikaze pilots. Now I am not built of the nonsense that says that weeds and Kamikaze are just a part of life and learn to live with it. But like the atomic bomb, I believe that with the military genius of our country they could have come up with a smarter less destructive method.

The same goes for ranchers and farmers that just want to spray with these powerful chemicals. Take some time to think, we've only had many of these herb/pesticides for 80 years or so.

There IS a better way.
Click to expand...
My brother sent this pic this weedend. This was a big milestone for us. This on the same place with all the dragonflies. Minimizing chemicals is paying off.

Screenshot_20260706_171858_Gallery.jpg
 
Weber Hickory Wood Chunks Outdoor Cooking Fuel, 4 lb – Premium BBQ Smoking & Grilling Chips for Rich, Subtly Sweet Flavor – Ideal for Beef, Lamb, Poultry & Pork – Long Lasting
See price on Amazon
Weber Hickory Wood Chunks Outdoor Cooking Fuel, 4 lb – Premium BBQ Smoking & Grilling Chips for Rich, Subtly Sweet Flavor – Ideal for Beef, Lamb, Poultry & Pork – Long Lasting
Old Potters Smoker Wood Chunks 13-16 lbs for Grilling, Smoking, and Wood Fire Cooking ~ 2 x 3 Inches, (Hickory, 790 Cu in.)
See price on Amazon
Old Potters Smoker Wood Chunks 13-16 lbs for Grilling, Smoking, and Wood Fire Cooking ~ 2 x 3 Inches, (Hickory, 790 Cu in.)
Hickory Pizza Oven Wood 6 Inch, 15 lbs Box – Kiln Dried & Bark-Free Firewood for Pizza Ovens, BBQ Smoking & Grilling – Premium Hickory Wood Logs for Ooni, Gozney, Solo Stove, Bertello
See price on Amazon
Hickory Pizza Oven Wood 6 Inch, 15 lbs Box – Kiln Dried & Bark-Free Firewood for Pizza Ovens, BBQ Smoking & Grilling – Premium Hickory Wood Logs for Ooni, Gozney, Solo Stove, Bertello
Firewood Central Kiln-Dried PA Hickory – 8” Splits (Approx 39.5 lb) – Bold Smoking Wood for Pizza Ovens, BBQ & Fire Pits – Easy Light, Low Smoke, USA Sourced
See price on Amazon
Firewood Central Kiln-Dried PA Hickory – 8” Splits (Approx 39.5 lb) – Bold Smoking Wood for Pizza Ovens, BBQ & Fire Pits – Easy Light, Low Smoke, USA Sourced
Firewood Central Kiln-Dried PA Hickory – 6” Splits (Approx. 42 lb) – Bold Smoking Wood for Pizza Ovens, BBQ & Fire Pits – Easy Light, Low Smoke, USA Sourced
See price on Amazon
Firewood Central Kiln-Dried PA Hickory – 6” Splits (Approx. 42 lb) – Bold Smoking Wood for Pizza Ovens, BBQ & Fire Pits – Easy Light, Low Smoke, USA Sourced
Greenworks 24V 6in BL Pruning Saw w/Auto Oiler, Tool Only
See price on Amazon
Greenworks 24V 6in BL Pruning Saw w/Auto Oiler, Tool Only
Old Potters Kiln Dried Firewood - Cherry, 1100 Cu. in, 16-18 Logs ~ 8" x 2.5" Logs. Solo Stove and Cooking Wood for Grilling, Smoking, and Firepits, Cherry.
See price on Amazon
Old Potters Kiln Dried Firewood - Cherry, 1100 Cu. in, 16-18 Logs ~ 8" x 2.5" Logs. Solo Stove and Cooking Wood for Grilling, Smoking, and Firepits, Cherry.
Heritage Smoke Wood Hickory Pizza Oven Wood with Fire Starter - Kiln Dried Firewood 6" Hardwood Logs for Brick Fire Pizza Ovens & Grills, 6 lb, Low Smoke, High Heat, Competition-Grade Clean Burn
See price on Amazon
Heritage Smoke Wood Hickory Pizza Oven Wood with Fire Starter - Kiln Dried Firewood 6" Hardwood Logs for Brick Fire Pizza Ovens & Grills, 6 lb, Low Smoke, High Heat, Competition-Grade Clean Burn
39" Fire Pits with Wood Storage for Outside, Large Wood Burning Outdoor Fireplace with Chimney, Mesh Spark Screen & Fire Poker, Idea for Backyard, Patio, Party, Camping, Picnic
See price on Amazon
39" Fire Pits with Wood Storage for Outside, Large Wood Burning Outdoor Fireplace with Chimney, Mesh Spark Screen & Fire Poker, Idea for Backyard, Patio, Party, Camping, Picnic
Smoak Firewood Cooking Wood Mini Splits - USDA Certified Kiln Dried Pizza Oven Wood, Grilling Wood, Smoking Wood, BBQing Wood (8inch Pieces, 25-30lbs 1728 Cubic in - Hickory)
See price on Amazon
Smoak Firewood Cooking Wood Mini Splits - USDA Certified Kiln Dried Pizza Oven Wood, Grilling Wood, Smoking Wood, BBQing Wood (8inch Pieces, 25-30lbs 1728 Cubic in - Hickory)
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. Product prices and availability are accurate as of the date/time indicated and are subject to change.
Brute 23 said:
I would be doing every thing I can to burn that pasture and then find out what the cows will and won't eat. You will add feed value and control alot of these woody plants at a cheaper cost than chemicals. If stuff makes it past the fire and the grazing then you can address it individually with spray.
Click to expand...
This right here would most certainly be my first step if you can do it. Fire is good, but your situation may not allow it to happen. The local volunteer fire department uses these situations as training. At least around here they do. I’d check into it though.
 
Fire is one those it depends things. And I most certainly have more grass since the fire. I was just up on my neighbors a few minutes ago. He ran 100 pairs on 320 acres for a month. There is still more grass there than he ever had before. Fire did not do anything the discourage the thistles or the knapweed. In fact if anything they are doing much better since the fire. And that fire which went through here ended up burning 290,000+ acres. That is the big down side to fire. And there is the example of the Hammonds. Their fire jumped a property line and about 140 acres of BLM sage brush. For that they spent a couple of years in prison. One of the men who protested them getting sent to prison was killed by the government. I don't think I am going to burn any of my pasture,
 
Dave said:
Fire is one those it depends things. And I most certainly have more grass since the fire. I was just up on my neighbors a few minutes ago. He ran 100 pairs on 320 acres for a month. There is still more grass there than he ever had before. Fire did not do anything the discourage the thistles or the knapweed. In fact if anything they are doing much better since the fire. And that fire which went through here ended up burning 290,000+ acres. That is the big down side to fire. And there is the example of the Hammonds. Their fire jumped a property line and about 140 acres of BLM sage brush. For that they spent a couple of years in prison. One of the men who protested them getting sent to prison was killed by the government. I don't think I am going to burn any of my pasture,
Click to expand...
@Dave is correct. It's a great option.....IF....... it is an option. Enough fire fuel? Is burning allowed? Are proper fire conditions present/likely achievable? What is regrowth/new growth going to be like? Fire makes for a great, and plausible, management tool. It's much harder to utilize as a 'reset' tool when options/wiggle room is limited,
 
Dave said:
Fire is one those it depends things. And I most certainly have more grass since the fire. I was just up on my neighbors a few minutes ago. He ran 100 pairs on 320 acres for a month. There is still more grass there than he ever had before. Fire did not do anything the discourage the thistles or the knapweed. In fact if anything they are doing much better since the fire. And that fire which went through here ended up burning 290,000+ acres. That is the big down side to fire. And there is the example of the Hammonds. Their fire jumped a property line and about 140 acres of BLM sage brush. For that they spent a couple of years in prison. One of the men who protested them getting sent to prison was killed by the government. I don't think I am going to burn any of my pasture,
Click to expand...
There is a lot more to that deal and it has little to do with the op.

Thats how you get toxic cultures that spread through uninformed people.
 
Travlr said:
Pretty obviously any local fire department needs to be involved in any burning decision that involves acreage.
Click to expand...
Its different in every state, county, etc. In Texas its not required. We call and give the location to help them respond to calls for smoke so they don't send resources unnecessarily. Again, its a courtesy, but not required.

There are specific rules in place in each state. You just have to navigate them. Obviously you always catch more flies with honey so get with local burning groups, pbas, get involved with the vol fire departments, invite them out, hire those guys to help, etc.

There is a big push educate and to put fire on the ground, responsibly. This is a new era.

I can guarantee you GA fire culture is much different than Oregon and its all different than the Hammonds situation. Even alluding prescribed fire had any thing to do with that situation is incredibly irresponsible and false.
 
Goldfinch said:
Good question. I don't think it is a simple answer and I probably don't know the right one. However I would not allow my cattle to graze it.

A similar question:
Was the atomic bomb safe? Think about it.

24D is one of the active ingredients in Agent Orange. An estimated 1 million people have died from the use of Agent Orange in Vietnam alone. Approximately half of that number were US veterans.

Both the a-bomb and 24D were developed as weapons of war and both were/are used to solve a problem that is hard to control. Weeds in pasture are a problem and so are Kamikaze pilots. Now I am not built of the nonsense that says that weeds and Kamikaze are just a part of life and learn to live with it. But like the atomic bomb, I believe that with the military genius of our country they could have come up with a smarter less destructive method.

The same goes for ranchers and farmers that just want to spray with these powerful chemicals. Take some time to think, we've only had many of these herb/pesticides for 80 years or so.

There IS a better way.
Click to expand...
Agent Orange is a combination of 2,4-D, 2,4,5-T and 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-p-dioxin. The latter compound is the highly toxic one and 2,4,5-T has been off the market for a long time due to it being considered carcinogenic.
 
Can't say if 2 4 D is harmful to cattle or not but it has no grazing restrictions. I can say cattle will live a long productive life after grazing pastures sprayed with it.
 
Mrcopier said:
I have a question that popped into my head yesterday while I was mowing the 50 acres. I have a bunch of sand burrs in a certain corner of the place. I spot spraying it with roundup and it kills the plant just fine. However it’s the seed heads it doesn’t kill and quite a few comes back each year. I was thinking if I sprayed them with diesel instead of roundup, it would kill the plant but her is the question. Do you think the diesel would soak into the seed head and make it so it wouldn’t germinate the next year? I mean diesel can soak into anything. The only other option according to AI is to use a pre-emergent in late winter. What are y’all’s thoughts?
Click to expand...
Oh those wonderful sand burrs!! While try to convert our bottom back to grazing land we are fighting the burrs hard. Have used mowing short, grazing, pre emergent in February and post emergent in may/june. Maybe winning a little, sure depressing though. Thought about round up to see if I can kill everything but the Bermuda
 
crossbreed said:
Oh those wonderful sand burrs!! While try to convert our bottom back to grazing land we are fighting the burrs hard. Have used mowing short, grazing, pre emergent in February and post emergent in may/june. Maybe winning a little, sure depressing though. Thought about round up to see if I can kill everything but the Bermuda
Click to expand...
Round up will kill it but you have to identify the plant and get it before the seed heads appear. They look a lot like Bahia grass so hard to tell. Broadcast spraying didn’t work either. Damn seed heads
 

Latest posts

Back
Top