Are Most Producers Inefficient?

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He says is about 7 minutes in. "we're looking at 2 different extremes here". By definition extremes are not efficient. The problem with the Pharo program is most of the bulls in the sale this week don't look better than the commercial steers I feed out. I'm sure they are low input, but it's the output that goes to market eventually.
 
At 8:20 he says the truth but doesn't seem to get it. "You can go half way if you want. But if you're half way here or half way there, you're losing so opportunities." That's called efficiency!!!!!!!!
 
NIdahoShorthorns said:
He says is about 7 minutes in. "we're looking at 2 different extremes here". By definition extremes are not efficient. The problem with the Pharo program is most of the bulls in the sale this week don't look better than the commercial steers I feed out. I'm sure they are low input, but it's the output that goes to market eventually.
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^^^THIS^^^
 
NIdahoShorthorns said:
He says is about 7 minutes in. "we're looking at 2 different extremes here". By definition extremes are not efficient. The problem with the Pharo program is most of the bulls in the sale this week don't look better than the commercial steers I feed out. I'm sure they are low input, but it's the output that goes to market eventually.
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I just got back from the Pharo sale today here in Texas. They would hurt the Black Angus boys feeling real quick with what the bulls brought. You may not like them, but there was a whole crowd of people there that do.

One of the most interesting observations I made at the sale was the different type of people. At the registered Black Angus sales there are lots of shiny cowboy hats and boots and fancy rigs. At the Pharo sale it was farmers and ranchers with farm or feed trucks and old, well used trailers. The Pharo guys were definitely willing to spend more on bulls than clothes and trailers as opposed the Black Angus guys.
 
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NIdahoShorthorns said:
At 8:20 he says the truth but doesn't seem to get it. "You can go half way if you want. But if you're half way here or half way there, you're losing so opportunities." That's called efficiency!!!!!!!!
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Do you work for a major mediia outlet? 🤣 Pulling one sentence out of a conversation and applying it where you would like it extremely deceptive.
 
Brute 23 said:
I just got back from the Pharo sale today here in Texas. They would hurt the Black Angus boys feeling real quick with what the bulls brought. You may not like them, but there was a whole crowd of people there that do.

One of the most interesting observations I made at the sale was the different type of people. At the registered Black Angus sales there are lots of shiny cowboy hats and boots and fancy rigs. At the Pharo sale it was farmers and ranchers with farm or feed trucks and old, well used trailers. The Pharo guys were definitely willing to spend more on bulls than clothes and trailers as opposed the Black Angus guys.
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It doesn't really have anything to do with what I like. That kind of cattle wouldn't work for me, and it's not what you find in most commercial operations around here. I'm sure those bulls suit operations in the desert southwest just fine.

I take exception to Mr. Pharo generalizing on couple of items. First is input costs, input costs vary over time and location; right now the largest(biggest risk) input cost throughout the cattle supply chain is labor. It adds a lot of cost to the final product at a store or in a freezer. You can't square Mr. Pharo's pounds per acre logic, with the fundamental truth that there is less labor cost per pound of beef in a larger steer. The second point that gets glossed over by zero input people; order buyers are not stupid, they know what they are buying and from whom. There are pretty big discrepancies in $/cwt is every weight class; sometimes 20-30%. You might be cutting your inputs but are you getting average price, or better?

Naturally, everything I just said could be thrown back in reverse for people that chase absolute pounds of weaning weight, and it would be correct. Efficiency lies in the middle.
 
NIdahoShorthorns said:
It doesn't really have anything to do with what I like. That kind of cattle wouldn't work for me, and it's not what you find in most commercial operations around here. I'm sure those bulls suit operations in the desert southwest just fine.

I take exception to Mr. Pharo generalizing on couple of items. First is input costs, input costs vary over time and location; right now the largest(biggest risk) input cost throughout the cattle supply chain is labor. It adds a lot of cost to the final product at a store or in a freezer. You can't square Mr. Pharo's pounds per acre logic, with the fundamental truth that there is less labor cost per pound of beef in a larger steer. The second point that gets glossed over by zero input people; order buyers are not stupid, they know what they are buying and from whom. There are pretty big discrepancies in $/cwt is every weight class; sometimes 20-30%. You might be cutting your inputs but are you getting average price, or better?

Naturally, everything I just said could be thrown back in reverse for people that chase absolute pounds of weaning weight, and it would be correct. Efficiency lies in the middle.
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I dont understand what you are getting at. If you want to do large cattle and more inputs do it. The Pharo deal doesnt apply to you.

For a lot of us, it does. I have found a lot of what they say applies to me.

The only thing I will argue is that we get docked for moderate sized cattle. In our market, a #1100 cow and #1800 bull can produce a #600 calf in 6-7mo. We regularly sell those calves on the top end of the market. We dont always have the forage to support more growth from the bigger cattle. To be honest, our sweet spot to sell is #525-625.

I will admit I do not own a Pharo bull. I am not pushing their bulls specifically or any thing like that. I do agree with a lot, not all, of their philosophy though, no matter where you get your cattle.
 
In that episode I posted, Kit threw out an idea that I found really interesting. He said, maybe you throw out one of our bulls for the first 30 days to get replacement females then follow up with a more terminal bull the last 30-60. Basically use those fertile cows on the front end for replacements.

Again, no matter if you use their bulls or not, that idea caught my attention. I had not heard or thought about that. Maybe Im just not as sharp as others but I have to give him credit on that. I would love to hear some pro/con thoughts on that one.
 
Brute 23 said:
I dont understand what you are getting at. If you want to do large cattle and more inputs do it. The Pharo deal doesnt apply to you.

For a lot of us, it does. I have found a lot of what they say applies to me.

The only thing I will argue is that we get docked for moderate sized cattle. In our market, a #1100 cow and #1800 bull can produce a #600 calf in 6-7mo. We regularly sell those calves on the top end of the market. We dont always have the forage to support more growth from the bigger cattle. To be honest, our sweet spot to sell is #525-625.

I will admit I do not own a Pharo bull. I am not pushing their bulls specifically or any thing like that. I do agree with a lot, not all, of their philosophy though, no matter where you get your cattle.
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I'm getting at the fact that end consumers want the larger animals and the lower unit costs of beef that go with that. In keeping with the point of this thread, and on the topic of the video posted early and Mr. Pharos own words, minimizing is no more efficient that maximizing.
 
Brute 23 said:
In that episode I posted, Kit threw out an idea that I found really interesting. He said, maybe you throw out one of our bulls for the first 30 days to get replacement females then follow up with a more terminal bull the last 30-60. Basically use those fertile cows on the front end for replacements.

Again, no matter if you use their bulls or not, that idea caught my attention. I had not heard or thought about that. Maybe Im just not as sharp as others but I have to give him credit on that. I would love to hear some pro/con thoughts on that one.
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This is an interesting idea, and probably a good one. He also mentioned using Charolais bulls as a terminal sire because they "stamp" their offspring. I like that too. I'm a believer that you should be breeding for replacements or terminal animals, but not both, so these seem like efficient ways to go about this.
 
NIdahoShorthorns said:
I'm getting at the fact that end consumers want the larger animals and the lower unit costs of beef that go with that. In keeping with the point of this thread, and on the topic of the video posted early and Mr. Pharos own words, minimizing is no more efficient that maximizing.
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Again, I have not seen that.

To be honest, I dont care what they want. I am always going to run my numbers and do what's best for me, with in ethical standards.
 
Brute 23 said:
Again, I have not seen that.

To be honest, I dont care what they want. I am always going to run my numbers and do what's best for me, with in ethical standards.
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https://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/lswwcbs.pdf

Whether you see it or not doesn't mean it's not true. Estimated average dressed weight this week was 877lbs. Which is just about a 1400 steer, that's the average. IA/MN were at 985. TX was quite a bit lower at 917. These number makes logical sense because of climate and feed availability.

You don't have to care what the end consumer wants, but in the end it does drive the market. Look at the premiums and discounts on prime vs standard too. More and higher quality beef seems to be the trend.
 
Brute 23 said:
Tell him he does a great job. He really keeps the interviews easy to follow and asks the right questions, imo. His questions at the end are great and I always enjoy hearing the different perspectives. I also enjoy his short, faith based comments.
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Yup, he's a really great guy. I've know him for a number of years. Wonderful young family. I'll pass along your comments.
 
NIdahoShorthorns said:
https://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/lswwcbs.pdf

Whether you see it or not doesn't mean it's not true. Estimated average dressed weight this week was 877lbs. Which is just about a 1400 steer, that's the average. IA/MN were at 985. TX was quite a bit lower at 917. These number makes logical sense because of climate and feed availability.

You don't have to care what the end consumer wants, but in the end it does drive the market. Look at the premiums and discounts on prime vs standard too. More and higher quality beef seems to be the trend.
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Pharo has "Tenet" bulls which are their meat quality bulls.
 
Sure are some nice looking animals! Just hard to get used to their size though. Like has been said before on here... it requires a balance. If you're direct marketing, you can pretty much sell any size animal. But if you have to take some of your animals to the sale barn for terminal... they're gonna figure out pretty quickly that if you have "small framed critters" that can't make a big framed steer... you're likely gonna get dinged on 'em. Yes, there IS a market for all the different frame sizes... but there's not alot of overlap between those markets.

And I'm saying that as a grass-fed direct marketer. I recognize the reality. The packers want the bigger framed critters.
 

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