If you recognize that you have average calves, Capitol is not a bad place to sell because you will get average prices. If you have a group of top notch uniform calves you need to go elsewhere. Capitol's price is based on what their buyers are paying at sale barns all over the state for similar calves. If you have a couple of dairy cross calves, they will recognize them, sort them out and pay the going rate discounted price. Everything is transparent. They want you to be a regular customer. The calves they get from individuals are generally healthier than those going through the sale barn process.
Feeder futures
- Thread starter kenny thomas
- Start date
farmerjan
Well-known member
Because the calves are sold single/one at a time... as opposed to someone bringing in 15 that all match and get sold in a group together.
Here co-mingled means that they make a group out of all the single calves,,,, so if you and I and 5 other farmers each bring in 1 or 2 and they are the same size and color... they co-mingle them into 1 big group and sell them as a group. You get paid for your animal that was weighed individually... but it saves them time and they have a group that one person buys all at once instead of 15 separate buys. You will see separate tags on each calf but they are all in the ring at one time and get sold all together...
I feel your pain. I use to feel the same way. It was a long process to break through. We had to invest in good bulls, culled cows hard based on performance, started banding and making sure all the calves were tagged, and making sure we had the right nutrition in the pasture or feed.
Looking at it now it's actually pretty simple but at the time, I don't know what I didn't know. I knew I needed better calves because I had watched the top selling go through the barn but I didn't know how to produce them and wasn't going to throw money at it.
Last edited:
coachg
Well-known member
Could have been me ? Last time I looked the US cow #'s were 1940's level . I think we will always see seasonal dips but never extreme lows . Our local sales are still seeing lots of cows going to slaughter. Wasn't in it at the last mountain top . But we started buying in during the downhill slide . Probably got in too quick but came out ok on most of the cows we bought.
kenny thomas
Well-known member
The drop off market as you refer to it was 31 cents lower than the stockyard last week. 500lb x .31 is $155 per calf. Commission is $18 at the local stockyard on that size. So $137 per head loss by dropping them off there. Thats a lot of money lost for me.
Last edited:
rocfarm
Well-known member
Thanks for the advice.
Seems like I’m stuck with the (maybe?) discount rates for now, as it will be hard to get 5 steers each year that are the same size.
I’ll remember to try to time the market. Actually got all my cattle money back because I bought during the drought. And $2.40/lb isn’t bad for a red 675 lbs steer that was 273 days old and straight off the cow with only an 8 way.
But I am interested in selling higher value calves if a future Wagyu deal doesn’t work out—hoping it does, though. Then I’ll have contracted sales, a proscribed vaccination program. and don’t have to worry about buying a bull, just replacement cows/heifers.
Not sure about the colored cattle comment. More and more here in central Texas it seems that they just look at the frame size of the cattle. If the steer has a moderate to larger frame, it seems the color is not quite as important, at least in this hot market. But that’s another caveat. I like having smaller to moderate framed 1000 to 1100 lbs cows. I don’t even mind 900 lbs cows if they are my kind. Is it unreasonable to expect to break into the #1 calf market with these smaller mommas when the neighbors are running 1200 to 1400 lb cows? Or are there people in central Texas that get #1 prices for calves out of these smaller cattle? The red steer I sold mentioned above has a mom that weighs about 950 lbs. She weighed 795 lbs when I got her, so even a high-dollar bull might not help much more…
If prices drop and my Wagyu deal doesn’t come through, I’ll probably go red cows with a black bull when the opportunity arises.
But agree with the comments on small producers. It seems like if you don’t have over a certain amount of cattle, the best way to make money on cattle is to not spend any more money on them than you need to for sustainability, even if you are stuck selling low #1s or #2s until the market gives a good opportunity to upgrade. I’m not even sure upgrading is advisable. #2 heifers were very reasonable the day I sold my steer. Could have bought 3 weight Herefords for around 750 dollars.
Seems like I’m stuck with the (maybe?) discount rates for now, as it will be hard to get 5 steers each year that are the same size.
I’ll remember to try to time the market. Actually got all my cattle money back because I bought during the drought. And $2.40/lb isn’t bad for a red 675 lbs steer that was 273 days old and straight off the cow with only an 8 way.
But I am interested in selling higher value calves if a future Wagyu deal doesn’t work out—hoping it does, though. Then I’ll have contracted sales, a proscribed vaccination program. and don’t have to worry about buying a bull, just replacement cows/heifers.
Not sure about the colored cattle comment. More and more here in central Texas it seems that they just look at the frame size of the cattle. If the steer has a moderate to larger frame, it seems the color is not quite as important, at least in this hot market. But that’s another caveat. I like having smaller to moderate framed 1000 to 1100 lbs cows. I don’t even mind 900 lbs cows if they are my kind. Is it unreasonable to expect to break into the #1 calf market with these smaller mommas when the neighbors are running 1200 to 1400 lb cows? Or are there people in central Texas that get #1 prices for calves out of these smaller cattle? The red steer I sold mentioned above has a mom that weighs about 950 lbs. She weighed 795 lbs when I got her, so even a high-dollar bull might not help much more…
If prices drop and my Wagyu deal doesn’t come through, I’ll probably go red cows with a black bull when the opportunity arises.
But agree with the comments on small producers. It seems like if you don’t have over a certain amount of cattle, the best way to make money on cattle is to not spend any more money on them than you need to for sustainability, even if you are stuck selling low #1s or #2s until the market gives a good opportunity to upgrade. I’m not even sure upgrading is advisable. #2 heifers were very reasonable the day I sold my steer. Could have bought 3 weight Herefords for around 750 dollars.
rocfarm
Well-known member
My gut sense is I want a sale that has at least two buyers bidding on my cattle.
Also wondering if the people selling #1s are creep feeding their calves. But no one has yet mentioned a feed program above.
rocfarm
Well-known member
I think my calves are above average, actually. I think the main reason is that they, so far, have never been stressed by the environment. They always have ample grass, mineral input, and space.
None of the cattle at the auction looked to be in better condition than the ones I've sold over the past two years, especially during the drought last winter. The other cows at the auction looked a bit poor. My steer was put in the pen with the best looking steers at the end of the auction in July. I went back there and checked just to make sure.
In the end, I think I'm with that guy from Feeder Flash on this one. I want buyers to competitively bid on my cattle at sale time.
rocfarm
Well-known member
Scratch the feed comment. Brute did mention it. I’m wondering what percentage of #1s have been on feed. That would maybe make sense on why I’d get lower prices …
chevytaHOE5674
Well-known member
For a small time producer having a tight/strict calving window is imperative IMO. Sync the cows if needed to get all those calves on the ground as the same time. That way everything can be similar size and ready to go at the same time.
Have a neighbor with maybe 20 cows that calves nearly year round. Seems he is always weaning and shipping 1 or 2. Then complains at the price and work required to get those few to auction.
Have a neighbor with maybe 20 cows that calves nearly year round. Seems he is always weaning and shipping 1 or 2. Then complains at the price and work required to get those few to auction.
That's exactly what you want and why you raise the type of calves the buyers want instead of the kind you think will sell good. I say the kind the buyers want because every area is different. Also buyers don't want fleshy calves, the calves you call poor may be more inline with what they want. Hard to say without seeing the calves.
Wagu is a niche market. I know several that have tried it but no one that continued more than a year or two. Your market may be different though.
rocfarm
Well-known member
Had a tight window on my first set. Agree with that. But easier said than done if you only run 10 cows.
Attachments
rocfarm
Well-known member
Still discussing and asking questions. Not required to buy Wagyu mommas, so risk is less, I think. Rent the bull. If prices don't pan out, won't continue. Also, final agreement not clear. Still have my bull. Won't sell until something is finalized. Here’s the calves they want.
Attachments
If you could find a deal on the wagu that worked it'd be great. We go through your area some. There's a nice Butcher shop right off 281 in Edna maybe? Can't remember
We bought a Brangus bull from Mr. Zoterelli down there couple years back
We bought a Brangus bull from Mr. Zoterelli down there couple years back
Hpacres440p
Well-known member
Evant? Off 281? Really nice USDA processor there-they do a lot of Wagyu
I can't figure out why my calves don't sell good.
Have you tried.................... It worked for us and now we regularly top the market.
... no that wont work. I'll keep doing the same thing.
Ok. Hope it works out. (Face to palm.
)
Have you tried.................... It worked for us and now we regularly top the market.
... no that wont work. I'll keep doing the same thing.
Ok. Hope it works out. (Face to palm.
)
Last edited:
rocfarm
Well-known member
Lots of good processing plants in central Texas. Really convenient.
rocfarm
Well-known member
Didn't say they didn't sell well… Just wondering how to get them to sell even better. There’s a difference.I can't figure out why my calves don't sell good.
Have you tried.................... It worked for us and now we regularly top the market.
... no that wont work. I'll keep doing the same thing.
Ok. Hope it works out. (Face to palm.
And like everything else, there are business caveats.
I think running full blood black Wagyu is definitely a mistake. But if someone promises to buy the cross calves, shares a bull rental with you, and helps you get a discount on bulk feed as well as helps with the program maintenance like vaccinations and such, it sounds better than going it alone.
Also, I'm really wondering if it is easier in your cows to birth and raise a smaller calf. Of that is less had on your cow, there might be longevity benefits connected to the lower yearly mileage if you know what I mean… but haven't heard anyone talk about the biology from that angle—consistently raising a smaller calf adding to longevity for the cow. Might be something there…
I talk about it all the time as do others on here.
There is a fine line between moderation and making excuses for cattle or poor decisions.
Your comment about not spending will always keep you from selling "better". Nothing is free and the difference between the avg column and top column from your sales report is what the operator is putting in to the operation. That doesn't mean throwing cash at animals, it means executing a plan (in reference to your SOP).
rocfarm
Well-known member
You mean an SOP that is outlined in multiple parts across an 84 slide presentation and aims to teach all generations involved what we are trying to do for the long term? You should have seen the look on my family when I sat them down to go through the father-led course. But I wish someone had done it for me. Working on one for forage management, metal fabrication/fence building, wildlife management, and, if I ever figure out the market, cattle marketing. Even if this thing doesn’t survive me, it won’t be because I didn’t try to educate my kids.
So careful, Brute. You assume too much. And Americans famously overpay for a lot of things. That seems to be a national SOP. Just look at the government and credit card debts. And the U.S. is the easiest place to declare bankruptcy in the world. Seems to me a bit more of thinking about what you get for what you pay is in order for most of us.
