Does anyone care about good angus heads anymore?

[WFfarm]

My daughter really likes our bull's curly locks.

 

[greybeard]

If I remember right, there was a young bull calf that was winning a lot of Angus awards back in the 80s (?) and someone found out that it was a Charolaise that they'd done something to so it was black.

Big Mac/Jeep. National Western. 1972

https://www.ranchers.net/threads/does-anyone-remember-this.14844/

 

[Travlr]

Big Mac/Jeep. National Western. 1972

https://www.ranchers.net/threads/does-anyone-remember-this.14844/

Yup, that's the one. The details were muddied by time but that's it. That article you linked was great. "Whopper" indeed!

 

[Dave]

Even if that head has big ugly horns on it?

Well those big horns is another issue and I avoid them. But I do have one with horns out there in the pasture right now. She is a char cross cow with curled down horns like a Hereford which have been tipped. With those horns she isn't going to bother me or any of the other cows.

 

[ClinchValley86]

It seems to be a dying skill picking cattle by visual appraisal. I wish the Bonsma principles would get pushed more than the "show cattle" in 4h clubs and what not. A bull should still have a masculine look like @wbvs58 said. Still thinking of that. The bull in the pic has some neck muscle but his head looks too slender and more like a steer to me meaning his hormones could be off a bit which possibly doesn't matter so much in terminal cattle. I like being able to use data to pick genetics that should work but I'd like to learn more about using Bonsma principles in visual appraisal to identify sound productive cattle. Chasing Epds too hard often leaves behind some good functional cattle traits that don't show up in the numbers.

Steve Campbell and his solo cup videos/presentations are about as close to understanding them as I've found.

That's pretty much how I look at them too, bulls and cows. I'm trying to learn how to pick bull calves to grow into bulls.

 

[Travlr]

I'm trying to learn how to pick bull calves to grow into bulls.

Registered?

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

Pretty heads on my cows are important to me because I look at them every day. The deerlike femininity of Jersey females is pleasing. The wide forehead, large eyes, dished face and small muzzle of the classic Jersey is pleasant to look upon. That their ears angle upward and noses are black is also a plus. IMO, polled or dehorned is best because those little dagger sharp horns are distracting. As far as the males of the breed - I have never actually seen a Jersey bull because they come in a straw, fortunately.

Many commercial Jerseys these days have Holstien in the woodpile. They have long straight narrow faces and and small eyes. They look kind of horse faced. You see JX after a Jersey bull's name and number such a {3} or {4} That means how many generations ago a Holstein was used.

Angus cows also have pretty, feminine heads. Other breeds look coarse headed and have wide muzzles like vacuum cleaners.

 

[wbvs58]

Lots of hobby people I talk to think a small head equals no calving trouble. They also think small feet equal the same thing.

Anything to that?

Horse trainers would always look at the hands and feet of young fellows wanting to become an apprentice jockey.

Ken

 

[wbvs58]

Yes I know who you mean and it's a bit out of hand but the curly hair is supposed to be a desirable hormonal indicator so he's not as far off in left field as he usually is haha

My wild guess would be BH????

Ken

 

[Dave]

Even if that head has big ugly horns on it?

Silver, here is my one horned cow. Ain't she cute.

 

[ClinchValley86]

Registered?

I'm just playing with these commercial calves. But it should translate over to any bovine I'm assuming. I am assuming the more bully and muscly they look when young it's continue as they grow. Biggest part being how the front and midsection changes. Width too of course. Also seeing how the dam shows thru. Got some 10+ year old cows with some rather nice bulls (i think ) this time, especially the yellow calf.

I had considered getting these Franchise heifers registered to start breeding up the ones that'll be bred. But only if I get another ASA registered bull. May just try a homeraised out of Franchise. (Depends what Simme has this year and whether one's available, maybe miss Jeanne too?)

I figure there's plenty of people selling bulls. I'm just curious what I've got. Won't know til I start letting some grow.

I really enjoy watching heifers grow and mature.

On buying registered bulls, I figure if they aren't showing some muscle and length by 12 to 15 months, it just ain't gonna happen.

 

[Travlr]

I'm just playing with these commercial calves. But it should translate over to any bovine I'm assuming. I am assuming the more bully and muscly they look when young it's continue as they grow. Biggest part being how the front and midsection changes. Width too of course. Also seeing how the dam shows thru.

I had considered getting these Simme bull heifers registered, the ones that'll breed be bred. But only if I get another ASA registered bull. May just try some homeraised out of the Simme bull.

I figure there's plenty of people selling bulls. I'm just curious what I've got. Won't know til I start letting some grow.

I really enjoy watching heifers grow and mature.

On buying registered bulls, I figure if they aren't showing some muscle and length by 12 to 15 months, it just ain't gonna happen.

Post some good pics with weights and ages.

I've found that if a calf muscles up too soon it is likely to never get as much growth as one that muscles up later... within reason. But yeah, they need to show something by a year or so.

 

[ClinchValley86]

Post some good pics with weights and ages.

I've found that if a calf muscles up too soon it is likely to never get as much growth as one that muscles up later... within reason. But yeah, they need to show something by a year or so.

Definitely what I'm talking about. How they change during puberty and such. I got a grip on females and how they change, but can't picture things in my mind when it comes to bulls.

I will try and get some decent pictures together in a day or two.
I figure some of yall probably get tired of all my pictures.

I've got two buddies work cows and neither own bulls. So I've got two places I could park a yearling bull each an get to watch them grow. Sell them after they're dome growing is my plan. The one at cousins has turned out not too awful bad. If he was fed a little extra I think he'd look pretty good. Some attributes he has I'm not wild about. Something I'll watch for on the next ones

 

[ClinchValley86]

Horse trainers would always look at the hands and feet of young fellows wanting to become an apprentice jockey.

Ken

what were they wanting to see?

 

[simme]

I had considered getting these Franchise heifers registered to start breeding up the ones that'll be bred. But only if I get another ASA registered bull. May just try a homeraised out of Franchise. (Depends what Simme has this year and whether one's available, maybe miss Jeanne too?)

Here is a recent picture of the purebred simmy calf that identifies as a black hereford. 4 months old in this picture. Half brother of Kenny's KT600U and the Mic Drop calf.


Here is old franchise's half sister. 5 days old in this picture.

 

[ClinchValley86]

Franchise momma... I sure do like that cow.

What's the baldy sired by? I really like the looks of him in the pictures. Looks thick with a nice backside. Black herford breeders beating your door down.

What do those cows weigh at calving? don't think I ever did ask you that question.

They're all very purdy, Terry! Keeping the heifer I assume, yeah? You know Kenny will ask. If he hasn't already.

 

[simme]

Franchise momma... I sure do like that cow.

What's the baldy sired by? I really like the looks of him in the pictures. Looks thick with a nice backside

What do those cows weigh at calving? don't think I ever did ask you that question.

They're all very purdy, Terry! Keeping the heifer I assume, yeah? You know Kenny will ask. If he hasn't already.

Baldy is sired by the Select Sires bull High Life. I weighed those 2 cows last year when their calves were weaned. The 45 cow (dam of Kenny's bulls) weighed 1505 when her last calf was weaned. The 40 cow (dam of your bull) weighed 1600 when her calf was weaned. They are easy keeping, might weigh a little more just after calving. They were only weighed that one time. I would just as soon they were a little smaller.

Did not have as good of luck getting some of them settled to AI last year. Borrowed a red simangus Red Hill Farm bull from my brother to get 40 and two 2 year olds rebred before they got any further behind. So 40 has a natural sired calf this year. All 3 of the natural sired calves look good, maybe as good as the AI ones. We will see at weaning.

All AI bred cows/heifers this fall passed over on first 21 day period, so hope most settled to AI this year. I borrowed a spare bull and put him in early with the late calvers from last year. 40 and one of the now 3 year olds were standing and serviced by the bull at about 3 weeks post calving. Stong heats from both of those, but pretty early post calving. The third one only calved just 10 days ago. If she will cycle soon, maybe all 3 can get back on schedule and get back to an AI bull next year.

Difficult to get all of them settled to AI year in and year out. Especially with just the few cows I have. With a few cows, there are not many to ride for heat checking.

Picture of the High Life sire of the baldy bull.

 

[Travlr]

Baldy is sired by the Select Sires bull High Life. I weighed those 2 cows last year when their calves were weaned. The 45 cow (dam of Kenny's bulls) weighed 1505 when her last calf was weaned. The 40 cow (dam of your bull) weighed 1600 when her calf was weaned. They are easy keeping, might weigh a little more just after calving. They were only weighed that one time. I would just as soon they were a little smaller.

Did not have as good of luck getting some of them settled to AI last year. Borrowed a red simangus Red Hill Farm bull from my brother to get 40 and two 2 year olds rebred before they got any further behind. So 40 has a natural sired calf this year. All 3 of the natural sired calves look good, maybe as good as the AI ones. We will see at weaning.

All AI bred cows/heifers this fall passed over on first 21 day period, so hope most settled to AI this year. I borrowed a spare bull and put him in early with the late calvers from last year. 40 and one heifer were standing and serviced by the bull at about 3 weeks post calving. Stong heats from both of those, but pretty early post calving. The third one only calved just 10 days ago. If she will cycle soon, maybe all 3 can get back on schedule and get back to an AI bull next year.

Difficult to get all of them settled to AI year in and year out. Especially with just the few cows I have. With a few cows, there are not many to ride for heat checking.

Picture of the High Life sire of the baldy bull.
View attachment 52925

That's a d**n fine animal...

 

[Silver]

Silver, here is my one horned cow. Ain't she cute.

View attachment 52888

She’s cute enough. I have to wonder why it was that someone had her in the chute and decided to just tip them. But I wouldn’t not buy a good cow because she had horns like that.

 

[wbvs58]

what were they wanting to see?

Small so they don't grow too big.

Ken