What's hybrid vigor? This baby is PUREBRED ANGUS!

[Silver]

I bet I could take a cow/bull calf from the yards, and put him up against a President calf from one of my best cows, and it would be no contest. I could feed the mystery bull MORE than I feed President and he would still not catch up.

That's hopeful thinking. And baseless bragging. Stockyards are where all animals end up, even the very best. You really need to take a trip north, you would return home a very humble individual. Would't that be a breath of fresh air.

 

[NEFarmwife]

Ok, I get it now, you all have cleared up everything for me, especially the "bless his heart" comment, I know the translation of that phrase.

Here is what I should "theoretically" do with my herd if I'm correct.

First, stick by the textbook. I should head over to the stockyards, or perhaps borrow the neighbor's bull, even though his pedigree is dubious at best, and take what I've built and breed them all to a non Angus bull?

Then I stand back in awe of the explosive, growth and fertility that I have produced.

Then I wonder to myself, how are you ever going to fix this mess you have created, LOL!

I mentioned a while back that I would like, as an experiment to have a Shorthorn/Angus mix commercial group, and several people on here said that I would get "killed" when I went to sell them, even my ABS rep said, get that nonsense out of your head. That told me a lot, because I consider Shorthorns to be very fine cattle.

I think I will stick with my plan, there seems to be a fair amount of interest and demand for Angus, especially fully backgrounded, healthy, and uniform Angus.

Man, I like seeing photos of big cows, just like I like riding in a corvette, even though it's useless on my farm. Also, I learn from the posts, good, bad, different whatever.
BUT, you gotta start figuring out that condemning a proven science, and fellow ranchers, because you are successful at something different, makes NO logical sense. It's the same as me saying, I'm 6'4" tall, so there's no one who can't reach the top shelf at walmart.
Or maybe even, I don't wear a seat belt, and I'm still alive, so seat belts are stupid.

You came in here and said, "I'm successful, therefore other methods aren't effective" and now you're trying to dig yourself out by saying "Then I wonder to myself, how are you ever going to fix this mess you have created, LOL!" You blamed everyone else for being wrong, and now you act like we all started it. :bs:
I made some rookie mistakes when I first joined the forum, but I learned my lesson. and as entertaining as some of these posts become...you might consider doing the same.

I'm just saying that I've heard from all the locals how I need to breed to Gelbvieh or Charolais, you name it, ANYTHING but Angus, and if I do that, the results will be amazing. I don't buy it, it's nonsense. They cannot show me anything on their operation that would make me say "I need to change ASAP".

Lately there has been a LOT of complaining about the wretched state of the cattle business, and how the prices are horrible, especially in the Southeast. I have my thoughts on why that is the case, but it would take a whole new thread and it would make a LOT of people on here VERY angry, so I will hold my thoughts on that subject.

Recently I saw an auctioneer post on Facebook the price he obtained on a group of purebred Angus steers. I'm pretty sure it was $1.57 for 9 weights, average weight was around 950 pounds. The sale was in Iowa where they REALLY know cattle, same goes for Nebraska. Compare those prices to Bluegrass and they are laughable, or sad by compare. People are going to have a harder and harder time staying in the business because of "old beliefs" that simply don't produce a product that is in high demand.

While I have had my spats with NEFarmWife, I bet she would be hard-pressed to say that Angus doesn't rule the roost in her area, and I bet they aren't complaining about getting killed when they sell high-quality Angus steers. I bet their checks are fat, like their steers.

I don't know jack squat about NEFarmWife's business, but I would bet you dollars to donuts that she runs circles around the average prices received in the Southeast on mixed breed steers.

Actually, that auctioneer sold at the Bassett Livestock Auction (Nebraska) during their BBQ sale. You're a FOOL not to sell during this event... if you have a group that you can. Same goes for our local auction house. Right after the 4th, people pay top dollar. I wouldn't be a buyer but I sure wouldn't mind being a seller.

Below is the link to that sale. His were the 946# yearling steers. Lowery Livestock. And no, I am not related to the Dodds that sold during this sale, to my knowledge.

http://bassettlivestock.com/market-results/

 

[CattleMan1920]

I bet I could take a cow/bull calf from the yards, and put him up against a President calf from one of my best cows, and it would be no contest. I could feed the mystery bull MORE than I feed President and he would still not catch up.

That's hopeful thinking. And baseless bragging. Stockyards are where all animals end up, even the very best. You really need to take a trip north, you would return home a very humble individual. Would't that be a breath of fresh air.

Humble?

Try the stockyards here in my hometown if you want to be humbled.

I doubt a top sire from ABS or ORIgen would bring more than $1800

How is that for humbling?

 

[CattleMan1920]

Not that it matters, but shorthorn are too simular in type to get much benefit from crossing with Angus..if I were going in any direction with them it would be Hereford hands down.a Tried and true, no apology cross that will sell anywhere..great cattle.

This was my understanding also. The best advantage can be obtained crossing british breed with continentals. But these are pretty generic statements. Probably depends some on the individual bloodlines/traits.

Absolutely the worst cross for hybrid vigor is SH/Angus the most was Hereford/Brahman cross. Lots of old research data out of MSU,UFla and TAMU on the different crosses. Dr. David Riley has a series on improving herd genetics and maximizing hybrid vigor through cross breeding.
There is a lot of good info in here.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/39273033_D_G_Riley/amp

Really? This points to a different picture.

https://shorthornbeef.com.au/shorthorn-cross-dominate-beef-spectacular/

 

[Ebenezer]

I bet I could take a cow/bull calf from the yards, and put him up against a President calf from one of my best cows, and it would be no contest. I could feed the mystery bull MORE than I feed President and he would still not catch up.

That's hopeful thinking. And baseless bragging. Stockyards are where all animals end up, even the very best. You really need to take a trip north, you would return home a very humble individual. Would't that be a breath of fresh air.

Humble?

Try the stockyards here in my hometown if you want to be humbled.

I doubt a top sire from ABS or ORIgen would bring more than $1800

How is that for humbling?

Might be a reason - it might be their worth. The king did not know that he had no clothes until he was told. It is common in situations with egos and buddy/buddy is involved.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

That's hopeful thinking. And baseless bragging. Stockyards are where all animals end up, even the very best. You really need to take a trip north, you would return home a very humble individual. Would't that be a breath of fresh air.

Humble?

Try the stockyards here in my hometown if you want to be humbled.

I doubt a top sire from ABS or ORIgen would bring more than $1800

How is that for humbling?

Might be a reason - it might be their worth. The king did not know that he had no clothes until he was told. It is common in situations with egos and buddy/buddy is involved.

How much do your bulls average Ebenezer?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

This was my understanding also. The best advantage can be obtained crossing british breed with continentals. But these are pretty generic statements. Probably depends some on the individual bloodlines/traits.

Absolutely the worst cross for hybrid vigor is SH/Angus the most was Hereford/Brahman cross. Lots of old research data out of MSU,UFla and TAMU on the different crosses. Dr. David Riley has a series on improving herd genetics and maximizing hybrid vigor through cross breeding.
There is a lot of good info in here.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/39273033_D_G_Riley/amp

Really? This points to a different picture.

https://shorthornbeef.com.au/shorthorn-cross-dominate-beef-spectacular/

It does point in a different direction, don't it..right on a shorthorn beef web site..it's a poor frog, that won't praise his own pond..

 

[CattleMan1920]

Humble?

Try the stockyards here in my hometown if you want to be humbled.

I doubt a top sire from ABS or ORIgen would bring more than $1800

How is that for humbling?

Might be a reason - it might be their worth. The king did not know that he had no clothes until he was told. It is common in situations with egos and buddy/buddy is involved.

How much do your bulls average Ebenezer?

Now that's an interesting question!

 

[CattleMan1920]

That's hopeful thinking. And baseless bragging. Stockyards are where all animals end up, even the very best. You really need to take a trip north, you would return home a very humble individual. Would't that be a breath of fresh air.

Humble?

Try the stockyards here in my hometown if you want to be humbled.

I doubt a top sire from ABS or ORIgen would bring more than $1800

How is that for humbling?

Might be a reason - it might be their worth. The king did not know that he had no clothes until he was told. It is common in situations with egos and buddy/buddy is involved.

I seriously doubt anyone in their right mind would bring their cattle from Iowa or Nebraska and sell them at the Flemingsburg Stockyards, LOL!

It would be like selling a Rolls Royce on a "pay by the week" used car lot.

Probably wouldn't achieve much premium on that plan.

 

[Bright Raven]

Humble?

Try the stockyards here in my hometown if you want to be humbled.

I doubt a top sire from ABS or ORIgen would bring more than $1800

How is that for humbling?

Might be a reason - it might be their worth. The king did not know that he had no clothes until he was told. It is common in situations with egos and buddy/buddy is involved.

I seriously doubt anyone in their right mind would bring their cattle from Iowa or Nebraska and sell them at the Flemingsburg Stockyards, LOL!

It would be like selling a Rolls Royce on a "pay by the week" used car lot.

Probably wouldn't achieve much premium on that plan.

Brook is correct. I don't keep up with feeder prices but Flemingsburg did rank near the bottom of Kentucky Stockyards in average prices paid. Everyone I know except a couple who patronize Flemingsburg out of habit, go to Maysville, Mt. Sterling, or Paris.

 

[76 Bar]

The infamous Elephant ad compliments of Dr Hough:
http://www.noahsangusranch.com/Docs/Sinclair11SpringNews_Houghindd.pdf

 

[Silver]

I bet I could take a cow/bull calf from the yards, and put him up against a President calf from one of my best cows, and it would be no contest. I could feed the mystery bull MORE than I feed President and he would still not catch up.

That's hopeful thinking. And baseless bragging. Stockyards are where all animals end up, even the very best. You really need to take a trip north, you would return home a very humble individual. Would't that be a breath of fresh air.

Humble?

Try the stockyards here in my hometown if you want to be humbled.

I doubt a top sire from ABS or ORIgen would bring more than $1800

How is that for humbling?

Oh, so you are just comparing your best stuff against only the offerings at your local yard. I see. What I didn't see is where you were talking about money, only performance. Then you switched to money. Very hard to follow.... You aren't a holder of public office by chance?

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

The infamous Elephant ad compliments of Dr Hough:
http://www.noahsangusranch.com/Docs/Sinclair11SpringNews_Houghindd.pdf

Very interesting article. Thank you for posting it.

 

[Nesikep]

The infamous Elephant ad compliments of Dr Hough:
http://www.noahsangusranch.com/Docs/Sinclair11SpringNews_Houghindd.pdf

Really good article!

Read the website name real slow... NoAssAngusRanch

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Interesting article - that's an understatement. Dr. Hough kinda threw them under the bus. Article is not dated, but it is sometime after 2011. Real slam on the ELEPHANT ads!
" and in the latest MARC Cycle VIIa data, mature Angus cow weight on a body condition score constant basis were larger than
all breeds except Hereford. Bigger than all the Continental breeds including Charolais!"
" The USDA Meat Animal Research Center (MARC)a shows that Angus has annually increased weaning weight, yearling weight and milk faster than any other breed, but has also increased birth weight more than any other breed except Hereford, while
in general, the Continentals have decreased birth weight. Angus is still the calving ease leader, but not by the margin once enjoyed."
"Pregnancy rates of Angus yearling heifers trailed Hereford, Red Angus, Charolais and Simmental while being only one percent above Limousin, with Gelbvieh bringing up the rear."

It's getting late - have not read the whole article. Everyone should READ it. Pretty slick posting that one "76".

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

http://www.noahsangusranch.com/

Noah's Angus Ranch

 

[Silver]

The infamous Elephant ad compliments of Dr Hough:
http://www.noahsangusranch.com/Docs/Sinclair11SpringNews_Houghindd.pdf

Very interesting article. Thank you for posting it.

Yes, a very interesting article for sure.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Sounds like Dr. Hough has an agenda, but if you guys are happy that's all that matters.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

His article was slanted to be sure.

 

[kenny thomas]

Sounds like Dr. Hough has an agenda, but if you guys are happy that's all that matters.

I think Bob Hough is a pretty darn smart cattle guy. Read the article closely.
If I remember correctly he is a good friend of Red Bull Breeder also.