You Think

[Commercialfarmer]

We don't have rules like that, our deer are just too wild. Haven't found one yet that will stop long enough to be measured.

 

[Brute 23]

Before the 13" rule would you have seen those two bucks or would they have been shot last year?

Brute the problem here is we don't have wide genetics period.
The deer have evolved to high tight racks for the Thicket.
TPWD is never going to get what they want when it wasn't here to start with.
Myself and I know of quite a few more in talks with the State Rep have said screw it and gave up
leases. I kill time sitting on a deer stand on my place might get lucky.
I go to Central Texas to kill deer.
Told the wife I am thinking about giving deer hunting up I am so tired of the BS,
most of the neighbors already have. Every neighbor was on the lease we had for years
all have gotten off. What does that tell you.
I think this was the goal in the beginning.

You know your area better than any one CB. I'm just trying to keep you optimistic.

I'm pretty sure the one is 13" so you have the genetics to make 13". He will never be 20" but in a year or two he might go 15".

From my limited experience when you have those deer that are right on the edge of 13" they really don't put on that extra width until 4-5 yrs old. They can get pretty decent mass but the width definitely comes later in age.

 

[KNERSIE]

How do they police that rule?

 

[Caustic Burno]

How do they police that rule?

With terror get caught with one under 13 inches you can loose your weapon,vehicle, pay a fine and face jail time.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

All for a bunch of skinny goats.

:lol:

 

[Brute 23]

How do they police that rule?

If you take the meat to get processed the horns have to go with it. If you travel on the highway the horns have to be with it. Those are your biggest exposure points.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

I wonder how many now get wasted? The people making dumb rules with severe fines should be prosecuted for wanton waste.

All for a bunch of skinny goats.

:lol:

I agree. Amazing you can get about as much punishment for shooting food than for peddling meth.

Of course, CB you might want to check the demographics of those being fined. This law may be a civil rights violation on the grounds that rednecks are being overly represented.


I'd think a rule like, if you shoot a buck under whatever size limit you are trying to impose, you just don't get to take a buck the next year.

It would allow people to take those tall rack monsters that don't fit the slot if it was worth it to them. It wouldn't over penalize a very hard judgment call. And it would reduce hunting pressure still on the younger bucks.

If not stringent enough, make it two years.

 

[KNERSIE]

How do they police that rule?

If you take the meat to get processed the horns have to go with it. If you travel on the highway the horns have to be with it. Those are your biggest exposure points.

So if Caustic klaps one on his land how is anyone going to know about it?

 

[Alan]

Same as anything done illegally on your property, you only get caught if someone sees you, like a nieghbor, or if your dumb enough to tell someone.

For you guys with a spread rule; here we have a point rule, can only shot a spike or better, 3 point or better, etc. ( here a 3 point is 3 one one side, 3x2 would be the same as your 5 point, 3x3 is a 6 point). Wouldn't that help the problem your talking about with the tall narrow racks?

 

[Brute 23]

Same as anything done illegally on your property, you only get caught if someone sees you, like a nieghbor, or if your dumb enough to tell someone.

For you guys with a spread rule; here we have a point rule, can only shot a spike or better, 3 point or better, etc. ( here a 3 point is 3 one one side, 3x2 would be the same as your 5 point, 3x3 is a 6 point). Wouldn't that help the problem your talking about with the tall narrow racks?

There isn't a good correlation between age and points with whitetail.

Most areas are happy with the 13" rule and have seen great benefits from it. East Texas is where most of the complaints come from but there are a lot of factors that effect the spread. The East Texas deer population was also hit hard so there is a chance it will take longer to recover. Nutrition and age play a major role in the horns. You can put on 2+" of width on with the proper protein plan. Lastly, you have to make sure the deer can reach full potential with age.

 

[TexasBred]

Same as anything done illegally on your property, you only get caught if someone sees you, like a nieghbor, or if your dumb enough to tell someone.

For you guys with a spread rule; here we have a point rule, can only shot a spike or better, 3 point or better, etc. ( here a 3 point is 3 one one side, 3x2 would be the same as your 5 point, 3x3 is a 6 point). Wouldn't that help the problem your talking about with the tall narrow racks?

There isn't a good correlation between age and points with whitetail.

Most areas are happy with the 13" rule and have seen great benefits from it. East Texas is where most of the complaints come from but there are a lot of factors that effect the spread. The East Texas deer population was also hit hard so there is a chance it will take longer to recover. Nutrition and age play a major role in the horns. You can put on 2+" of width on with the proper protein plan. Lastly, you have to make sure the deer can reach full potential with age.

East texas has always been a problem area. Worlds of deer but no management and no quality bucks. Hopefully it's improved the past few years but havne't talked to anyone over that way in a while. I use to have a small lease over there and spikes and does were illegal. Might see one decent buck every year and everything else was trash.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Hard to grow quality bucks in a Pine desert.
What difference does it make to the TPWD what size the rack is.
When did this go from population control to horn management?
What is in horn management for the state?
The real question which one of the commissioners are getting something under the table for this rule?
If the state says you can kill four deer you should be able to jump from
a helicopter with a Bowie knife between your teeth if you want.
The system of selecting TPWD commissioners is as crooked as dogs hind leg.
Big businessmen appointed by the governor not one is from East Texas.
The commission actually has enacted unconstitutional laws against the residents of East Texas.
Our State Rep is currently working on that issue.
Secondly you should be able to kill what you want and manage your own land.

 

[Brute 23]

I don't disagree with you CB. The reality is Horns generate a lot of tax revenue for our state. Where there is money there are politics.

We have talked about before that a co-op managed system by county would be much be much better for every one.

 

[KNERSIE]

I struggle to understand this....

If it's illegal to shoot one with a rack narrower than 13" then you are effectively selecting for narrower racks because you cull those with wider racks. How is this helping the narrow rack situation?

 

[M.Magis]

I struggle to understand this....

If it's illegal to shoot one with a rack narrower than 13" then you are effectively selecting for narrower racks because you cull those with wider racks. How is this helping the narrow rack situation?

It's not. In general, most deer with spreads under 13" "should" be 1.5 or 2.5 years old, and it's an attempt to minimize the number of young deer being taken. The problem is that not all deer follow the rules. Because of the enormous variety of genetics in the wild, antler restrictions seldom have any impact, positive or negative.

 

[Brute 23]

I struggle to understand this....

If it's illegal to shoot one with a rack narrower than 13" then you are effectively selecting for narrower racks because you cull those with wider racks. How is this helping the narrow rack situation?

It's not. In general, most deer with spreads under 13" "should" be 1.5 or 2.5 years old, and it's an attempt to minimize the number of young deer being taken. The problem is that not all deer follow the rules. Because of the enormous variety of genetics in the wild, antler restrictions seldom have any impact, positive or negative.

Seldom has an impact on genetics.... I agree.

It has forced people to let deer get to a much older age waiting for them to hit 13".

Prior to the 13" rule both of those bucks would have been shot at 2 yrs old or earlier.

We can also shoot a deer with a spike, unbranched antler. That helps take inferior deer our of the herd.

 

[TexasBred]

Hard to grow quality bucks in a Pine desert.
What difference does it make to the TPWD what size the rack is.
When did this go from population control to horn management?
What is in horn management for the state?
The real question which one of the commissioners are getting something under the table for this rule?
If the state says you can kill four deer you should be able to jump from
a helicopter with a Bowie knife between your teeth if you want.
The system of selecting TPWD commissioners is as crooked as dogs hind leg.
Big businessmen appointed by the governor not one is from East Texas.
The commission actually has enacted unconstitutional laws against the residents of East Texas.
Our State Rep is currently working on that issue.
Secondly you should be able to kill what you want and manage your own land.

CB you forget...those deer belong to the STATE !!!!!! That is until one of them totals out your car or truck and then it's yours. :cry2:

 

[Caustic Burno]

Hard to grow quality bucks in a Pine desert.
What difference does it make to the TPWD what size the rack is.
When did this go from population control to horn management?
What is in horn management for the state?
The real question which one of the commissioners are getting something under the table for this rule?
If the state says you can kill four deer you should be able to jump from
a helicopter with a Bowie knife between your teeth if you want.
The system of selecting TPWD commissioners is as crooked as dogs hind leg.
Big businessmen appointed by the governor not one is from East Texas.
The commission actually has enacted unconstitutional laws against the residents of East Texas.
Our State Rep is currently working on that issue.
Secondly you should be able to kill what you want and manage your own land.

CB you forget...those deer belong to the STATE !!!!!! That is until one of them totals out your car or truck and then it's yours. :cry2:

TB I think every hunter in in Texas should take a two or three year hiatus on hunting.
State would find they don't need near as many dick GW's and Commissioners along with who is footing the bill.
Break up this armed robbery on lease prices as well.