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houstoncutter

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I have now seen it all. Was mowing pastures in the rain and the egrets were feeding on mice and bugs that I was kicking up. Next thing I know I got 4 yotes catching the egrets, after they choked those down they were running up to the tractor and catching mice. This went on for about 45 minutes. Looks like a need to thin the herd for sure. Any of y'all ever seen anything like that??
 
houstoncutter":3pcj6618 said:
I have now seen it all. Was mowing pastures in the rain and the egrets were feeding on mice and bugs that I was kicking up. Next thing I know I got 4 yotes catching the egrets, after they choked those down they were running up to the tractor and catching mice. This went on for about 45 minutes. Looks like a need to thin the herd for sure. Any of y'all ever seen anything like that??
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I've never seen it but the guy who manages a wildlife management area not far from here told me he's seen them do it when he's mowing food plots.
 
houstoncutter":1jab6259 said:
I have now seen it all. Was mowing pastures in the rain and the egrets were feeding on mice and bugs that I was kicking up. Next thing I know I got 4 yotes catching the egrets, after they choked those down they were running up to the tractor and catching mice. This went on for about 45 minutes. Looks like a need to thin the herd for sure. Any of y'all ever seen anything like that??
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Never saw it before but I would have a picture to show you cause I keep a shotgun on the tractor loaded with 3" #1's lol
 
Are these bad coyotes or the good ones? Bez has a theory that there are good ones and bad ones. If you shoot the good ones, the bad ones will move into their niche and cause more trouble than the ones you removed.
 
inyati13":2g4vmdmd said:
Are these bad coyotes or the good ones? Bez has a theory that there are good ones and bad ones. If you shoot the good ones, the bad ones will move into their niche and cause more trouble than the ones you removed.
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When did Black Bull Bez say that? Must have missed it.
 
Jogeephus":2cevanyj said:
inyati13":2cevanyj said:
Are these bad coyotes or the good ones? Bez has a theory that there are good ones and bad ones. If you shoot the good ones, the bad ones will move into their niche and cause more trouble than the ones you removed.
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When did Black Bull Bez say that? Must have missed it.
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Jo, more than once. I know it hAs come up in the past year a couple times. I don't think it is publicly documented in the form of research. Most of our conceptions are not. I disagree with him but it is not important enough to spend anymore time on than what it took here.
 
The one's that don't eat calves, fawns, or poults I guess could be called good ones. I call a dead one a good one here. Yesterday while I was mowing I had a fawn run out from under the tractor. I thought it was a coyote at first.
 
highgrit":co3ej5y2 said:
The one's that don't eat calves, fawns, or poults I guess could be called good ones. I call a dead one a good one here. Yesterday while I was mowing I had a fawn run out from under the tractor. I thought it was a coyote at first.
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how do we tell these special ones that don't kill stuff...do they have a license or a badge or a sign that says good coyote? do they have to pass a test for this designation? Are these vegetarian coyotes?
 
pdfangus":ajin01sd said:
highgrit":ajin01sd said:
The one's that don't eat calves, fawns, or poults I guess could be called good ones. I call a dead one a good one here. Yesterday while I was mowing I had a fawn run out from under the tractor. I thought it was a coyote at first.
Click to expand...

how do we tell these special ones that don't kill stuff...do they have a license or a badge or a sign that says good coyote? do they have to pass a test for this designation? Are these vegetarian coyotes?
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I tend to take a lot of semi-heat from folks here on this subject.

However we do not only run cattle here - we also run a few hundred sheep and they all have lambs at side in the field as I write.

In the ten to 12 years we have been practicing this thought process - brought on by a Ontario Government predation specialist, we have not lost one calf or lamb to dogs or coyotes. I regularly see coyotes right in with the calves and have occasionally seen them in with the sheep - it used to get my heart pumping.

The coyote density is high here - as high as anywhere in North America. We also get the mid-sized Grey Wolf and a few Black Bears.

Could all of this change tomorrow? Yup and I am the first to admit it.

But until I start losing livestock to the present resident predator population, no one shoots them here.

And there are others on this board that have had the same results - but few will speak of it. I think Lucky might have knowledge of a study done - or an example of this thought process somewhere in the US of A somewhere that indicates the truth in what I say - however it is so ingrained in the average person to kill them that most are not even willing or open to explore any alternatives.

We have run as many as 200 cow calf pairs here - all calving wild - out in the bush. No losses due to coyotes.

We do run more than 200 sheep in bush pastures here today.

We are very remote here - call an emergency vehicle and be happy if it gets to you in under 45 minutes to an hour.

Now I need to be up front - I am NOT anti hunting. But I am definitely anti indiscriminate killing around here - we have achieved a balance and I do not wish to see it destroyed.

Now, back to that predation specialists thought process that I need to expand on - it is a one liner.

"Do not kill the coyotes - but kill every domestic dog you ever see on the place if it is not yours - even if it is a Toy Poodle."

When my neighbours started following our thought process their predation dropped to nearly zero in the space of one year.

Now all of us in this area pretty much will not shoot any coyotes.

It has turned out that most "predation" was dogs - some of which have traveled as much as 20 miles (yup - got the tag off one hound that came from nearly 25 miles away to enjoy lamb) to get in on the fun. You see a dog on this place I guarantee you it is mine or it is dead. If you ever come here for a visit your dog is not welcome - it stays home or you are asked to leave. You see a coyote on this place - even if in with the cows or the sheep - grab the camera - because it is unlikely it will hurt the livestock here.

Do as you see fit and do as you believe - but nearing the age of 60 I have seen a lot and done a lot - I have hunted (and for that matter been hunted) on all but one continents of this world - and I can tell you that old Wiley can be a bad dude - but your neighbours "Pookie" is often far worse - and he generally gets off Scott free. The dusty coyote is always blamed.

I too get them following the tractor when cutting, raking and baling. In fact it is quite common here. Easy food is smart food for a predator.

I have also seen them take a fawn or a turkey - but we can shoot those off our back deck we are so over run with deer and turkey they are a nuisance.

But ..... that is life in the bush - and the coyote has to make a living - just as long as he does not do it on my flock or my herd I am fine. That deer is fair game in my mind and so is every other wild animal in the bush - if the coyote can catch it he is welcome to eat it. God and Mother Nature did not put the deer and the fawn and the goose and the gosling there specifically for us.

So now I will read how I am full of schitte - but no one here seems to be interested in actually doing what we do - but those same people are always willing to tell me I am wrong. Makes for an interesting read when I have this experience to back my thoughts.

Best to all

Bez
 
well.....

I have learned something today.....

further I will unabashedly say that I also have had more trouble with dogs than with anything else....all it takes as one dog to give chase and others will join...and I have shot dogs....I have shot dogs with the owner watching me....they, from their back yard...they had been warned...

I have been worrying about my goats....but apparently needlessly so as we have coyotes and bear and I staunchly believe a lion or two...I have encounered in the last two weeks large piles of scat unknown to me in my pasture....I am not a qualified scatologist even though some say I am full of it...
 
I have thought about Bez's theory. Caveat: I base my understanding on the population dynamics in the region where I raise my cattle. If I see a coyote, I shoot it. I understand population dynamics and ecology enough to know that killing a coyote opens a niche that has been vacated by the dead coyote. That niche will be filled (good, bad or ugly). So a coyote whose territory was overlapping with the one I killed will move in and fill that niche. If that coyote was living in harmony with my neighbor Johnny and not killing his calves, why would one assume it would move into the new niche and start killing my calves.

Look, I don't want to spend too much time on this. I think it is shooting from the hip at least for this area. It is possible that the population dynamics where Bez is at are different. Bez may be the greatest Lion Tamer of all time, but I am not convinced.

I like killing every coyote I see. My brother kills every coyote he sees. Everyone here kills coyotes.

Plus, I am sure Bez does not give one cup of cold water what I think or do. And that pleases me. :D
 
I agree with Bez. There is no shortage of coyotes here and also have plenty of black bears and a fair number of cougars. I see coyotes in with the cows all the time. Generally they are hunting mice. They don't pay attention to the cows and the cows ignore them. I have killed hundreds of coyotes as a trapper (28 in three days one time) but only one around my cows. Years ago I had one trying to get to a brand new calf. The cow was doing a good job of keeping him back and I gave her a high powered assist in that task. I was within about 30 yards of a coyote on Sunday. I was counting cow noses in a pasture and he was on the other side of the bunch of cows. The cows were paying more attention to me than they were that coyote. I do worry more about the cats. But even on them I can tell when one is around because the cows will tend to stay grouped up in the middle of the field. The cows take care of themselves with the cats. And good luck just seeing a cougar let alone shooting one anyway.
 
I'm with Bez as well. Guys who work for me have claimed several times coyotes killed a calf but not once has there been evidence - blood on the ground or grass - that the calf was alive when the coyotes worked over the carcass. Given all the rodents, rabbits, ducks, geese, turkey and quail around here I have a hard time believing a coyote would eschew such easy prey in order to take on a 75 to 95 pound calf with a 1300 pound mother.

I'm also with Bez on the question of indiscriminate killing. It needs to be something I'm going to eat or it needs to be causing me actual distress. Otherwise why kill it?
 
Dega Moo":mcpp34fw said:
I'm with Bez as well. Guys who work for me have claimed several times coyotes killed a calf but not once has there been evidence - blood on the ground or grass - that the calf was alive when the coyotes worked over the carcass. Given all the rodents, rabbits, ducks, geese, turkey and quail around here I have a hard time believing a coyote would eschew such easy prey in order to take on a 75 to 95 pound calf with a 1300 pound mother.

I'm also with Bez on the question of indiscriminate killing. It needs to be something I'm going to eat or it needs to be causing me actual distress. Otherwise why kill it?
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Dega Moo, I am close to you on that one. I was driving to the farm this week and a Big Brown Thrasher was in the road, probably catching a grasshopper. I came up on it quickly, it flew up, hit the grill and was killed. Spoiled my whole day. I will be 64 in two months and I am at that watershed point that I hate to kill anything. I get a few hours of distress immediately after the guy picks up my feeders to take them to the stockyards for sale.

On the other hand if I think I am contributing to the protection of the animals in my keeping, I am a good stewart. I will use the Rod and the Staff to protect them. I have to confess, I have not had a coyote kill any of my stock. I also agree that dogs could be a bigger threat. But I have never seen a dog on my farm except my dog Blue.

When I think about your message, I have even greater doubt in the concept that killing coyotes will lead to more problems by promoting the "bad" coyotes to occupy their niche. Because I have been killing the coyotes who occupy the territory that is my 80 acre farm but it has not promoted coyote predation.
 
I'm glad it works for y'all but a coyote cost me money. I make more profit off a deer hunter than I do a calf. And dogs are worse than coyotes, that's a fact.
 

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