Would you......

[Taurus]

Leave a 162lbs bull calf intact and use him as a breeder? Someone on Facebook had a 162lbs bull calf out of a C-section. Few people commented on the pictures that they were suggesting her to use him as a bull. I just bit my tongue. :shock:

 

[shortybreeder]

What was the cow like? What was she fed? Maybe with a little less high-energy feed and a cow with a decent pelvic width, it could work... If he weans off at 1000+ pounds without full feed then I suppose I would use him as a breeder for older cows.

 

[Limomike]

Leave a 162lbs bull calf intact and use him as a breeder? Someone on Facebook had a 162lbs bull calf out of a C-section. Few people commented on the pictures that they were suggesting her to use him as a bull. I just bit my tongue. :shock:

You sure that wasnt hillsdown's calf?? :lol2:

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

I saw that too. Crazy! The comments people made just show that stupidity abounds! Someone even commented wondering if he was a PHA calf... gee, if he was, he would be DEAD and full of water! Oh, and a TH calf... another deadly genetic disorder! Everyone telling the poster to get rid of the bull, without knowing the entire history! Oh, and the caveat, was someone telling them that not to get attached because the calf was going to be dead in 36 hours anyway! REALLY? Crazy people out there...

 

[Nesikep]

Hillsdown's calf looked just fine, just a little slow to get going. I had one cow that had ordinary sized calves, then suddenly made monsters.. the whole herd average BW's went up at least 10 lb that year as well and never came back down. One of my friends needed a bull and I kept one that was 135 lb for him, and he has smaller cows (jersey, LH, herf) and it looks like he bred them when he was 11 months and 3 just calved.. all unassisted and about 70 lbs.. I think something happened around here, and that cow in particular to cause higher bw's that aren't necessarily genetic... and no, it wasn't colder winters. I think you need to look at everything... if the calf's sire and dam all have high BW histories, perhaps he should be banded, but if it seems like a freak thing, use him on bigger cows first and see what he does. Having 2 identical bull calves with only the BW different, you'd choose the lighter one of course.

 

[Till-Hill]

I couldn't keep him a bull. We had a 5 day late bull 110 lbs. Great cow family bull would work on some cows but when I was done with him nobody would look at him without lying about his birthweight. So he gets cut. I ain't playing that game. That little over a 100 lbs is my cut off until someone comes begging to buy them bigger ones. Hasn't happened yet!

Cow last year had 63 lb bull calf, this year 102 lb heifer. 6 days late but even so we will breed that heifer to something very calving ease to be on safe side.......

 

[Backbone Ranch]

I wouldn't keep any calf with a birth weight that large especially since he was delivered by C-section. If they keep him a bull, they are asking for problems down the road.

 

[Taurus]

Yeah these comments are ridiculous! It wasn't the bull's fault and from what I read up, the bull has calves on the ground already and are in 70-80lbs range. But I wasn't sure if it is okay to using these monster sized bull calves as a breeder. Chasing one extremely high BW trait isn't my thing.

 

[cowgirl8]

We only keep bulls that the cow has easily and they grow fast. Never would i keep a c section bull that weighed that much at birth. If his babies werent big, the daughters you keep from him might.

 

[skeeter swatter]

If it needed a C-section for any reason it should be a steer, in my opinion.

 

[Aaron]

What was the cow like? What was she fed? Maybe with a little less high-energy feed and a cow with a decent pelvic width, it could work... If he weans off at 1000+ pounds without full feed then I suppose I would use him as a breeder for older cows.

You know you can wean off over 1000 lbs without full feed, and have a birth weight lower than 100 lbs!

 

[Nesikep]

Depending a lot on if you're weaning at 205 days or 305...

 

[shortybreeder]

What was the cow like? What was she fed? Maybe with a little less high-energy feed and a cow with a decent pelvic width, it could work... If he weans off at 1000+ pounds without full feed then I suppose I would use him as a breeder for older cows.

You know you can wean off over 1000 lbs without full feed, and have a birth weight lower than 100 lbs!

Yes, I know that is possible, there was an Angus bull in the Genex Catalog (don't remember if I saw him in 2012, 2013, 2014 or all 3) that had a 205 day weight of over 1000 lbs, but there aren't very many--even in the continentals/hybrids. If he turns out to be a really growthy bull and you have some older cows that can handle larger calves, then why not give him a chance? I haven't seen the facebook post, but we don't know all the variables involved with his high birth weight.

 

[Aaron]

What was the cow like? What was she fed? Maybe with a little less high-energy feed and a cow with a decent pelvic width, it could work... If he weans off at 1000+ pounds without full feed then I suppose I would use him as a breeder for older cows.

You know you can wean off over 1000 lbs without full feed, and have a birth weight lower than 100 lbs!

Yes, I know that is possible, there was an Angus bull in the Genex Catalog (don't remember if I saw him in 2012, 2013, 2014 or all 3) that had a 205 day weight of over 1000 lbs, but there aren't very many--even in the continentals/hybrids. If he turns out to be a really growthy bull and you have some older cows that can handle larger calves, then why not give him a chance? I haven't seen the facebook post, but we don't know all the variables involved with his high birth weight.

Please don't tell me your actually a purebred shorthorn guy and believe the crap your saying. I think I missed the purebred class where c-sections are part of genetic progression. Don't think it was in the Hereford course.

 

[Taurus]

What was the cow like? What was she fed? Maybe with a little less high-energy feed and a cow with a decent pelvic width, it could work... If he weans off at 1000+ pounds without full feed then I suppose I would use him as a breeder for older cows.

You know you can wean off over 1000 lbs without full feed, and have a birth weight lower than 100 lbs!

Yes, I know that is possible, there was an Angus bull in the Genex Catalog (don't remember if I saw him in 2012, 2013, 2014 or all 3) that had a 205 day weight of over 1000 lbs, but there aren't very many--even in the continentals/hybrids. If he turns out to be a really growthy bull and you have some older cows that can handle larger calves, then why not give him a chance? I haven't seen the facebook post, but we don't know all the variables involved with his high birth weight.

The dam is an black angus and the sire is a gelbvieh so the calf is a Balancer. The dam had calves in the past and all her calves were normal. The sire's calves are in 70-80lbs range. From what I read the comments on Facebook, it seems that even mature cows are having trouble to giving birth extremely oversized calves and in some cases the calves do not survive the birth. Some posters said that they don't gain very well when compared to the normal sized calves at weaning weight or were comparable to the WW of the average calves.

My old FFA advisor had one registered Hereford cow that always throw huge calves. The last one was 140lbs bull calf but by time he's weaned he only weights 400lbs while all normal calves outweighted him by 100-150lbs.

 

[shortybreeder]

What was the cow like? What was she fed? Maybe with a little less high-energy feed and a cow with a decent pelvic width, it could work... If he weans off at 1000+ pounds without full feed then I suppose I would use him as a breeder for older cows.

You know you can wean off over 1000 lbs without full feed, and have a birth weight lower than 100 lbs!

Yes, I know that is possible, there was an Angus bull in the Genex Catalog (don't remember if I saw him in 2012, 2013, 2014 or all 3) that had a 205 day weight of over 1000 lbs, but there aren't very many--even in the continentals/hybrids. If he turns out to be a really growthy bull and you have some older cows that can handle larger calves, then why not give him a chance? I haven't seen the facebook post, but we don't know all the variables involved with his high birth weight.

Please don't tell me your actually a purebred shorthorn guy and believe the crap your saying. I think I missed the purebred class where c-sections are part of genetic progression. Don't think it was in the Hereford course.[/quote]
I'm sorry, but I guess the c-section part slipped past me. I just looked at the birthweight, and I don't castrate any of my calves until weaning, so I was saying make the decision when you see how he turns out. I wouldn't consider keeping replacements out of a bull like that, but as a terminal sire, pounds=$. But I agree, c-section bulls shouldn't be used to change a breed or make females.

 

[Nesikep]

I do NOT believe anyone who says their steers are 1000 lb at 205 day weaning without extra feed... and it certainly isn't going to be the norm.

 

[shortybreeder]

I do NOT believe anyone who says their steers are 1000 lb at 205 day weaning without extra feed... and it certainly isn't going to be the norm.

Yeah, and then you start wondering about the other bulls in the catalog, from the same breeder, that are 7-800lb 205 day weights...

 

[Aaron]

I do NOT believe anyone who says their steers are 1000 lb at 205 day weaning without extra feed... and it certainly isn't going to be the norm.

I can't see how it would be so unbelievable. We used to wean lots of 800+ lb Simmental calves back in the heydays of that breed, before they turned it into an Angus. If it's not possible to exceed that nowadays, I don't know what all this genetic progress is, that breeders talk about. Maybe they are lying to everyone?

But of course, I must be lying too. No way someone could wean an 6-month, 800 lb steer in the early 80's without creep feeding them. Let alone disperse all those good cows and start raising a bunch of mangy, old Herefords with 500 lb weaners. Something seriously wrong in the head with those people. So full-of-it, I bet they don't even have cattle.

On another note, someone who thinks a 160 lb calf, regardless of sex, or presentation/calving ease, offers genetic potential to the world of cattle, needs to start breeding Angus cattle. They need such revolutionary breeding insight in that breed. I know of many Hereford breeders who will support you in your quest to improve the Angus breed. A 160 pounder is over 3 times as valuable as a 50 pounder - it's a no-brainer!