Would You Consider Using Sexed Semen

[BC]

This topic came up on another thread and not wanting to hijack that dialogue, decide to open it up here.

How would sexed semen work in a beef operation?
I could see it being used to produce superior replacement heifers and in a terminal sire program to produce all male calves that wind up being fed. This idea does not sound as "Buck Rogers" futuristic as it did just a few years ago. We already have cattlemen producing high quality replacement females to be sold into herds where no replacements are being kept. Why not up the odds and just produce what your operation can sell for the most dollars?

 

[novaman]

Your thinking is the same as mine was about 2 years ago only I was looking at using it on the dairy side. As I stated in the other thread, it doesn't work out as well as you would think. I have all but stopped breeding with sexed and have switched to conventional, heifers and all. There are some issues with lower conception rates, cost, and the overall economics don't come out as good as they pencil out. I am sure there are those that could make it work very well but overall I don't see it catching on in the beef industry. It even seems to be sliding in popularity on the dairy side right now.

 

[VanC]

Like novaman said, not only is it more expensive but you have to use more of it to get the cows bred. I don't know how recent these figures are, but I've read that about 70% of U.S. dairy cows are bred with AI but only about 10% of beef are bred AI. With those numbers, I can't see it catching on any time soon on the beef side.

 

[bishopcattleco]

i pick 10 cows every year to put a brahman bull on to get the replacements i want .i put a hereford bull on my brahman cows to get replacements also .how many times have u guys pulled calves seeing its face come out and say please be a heifer .or be checking cows come up on a new baby laying down and say please be a heifer please be a heifer.

 

[3waycross]

I would use it for sure with specific Sires that are known to be good or great cow makers. Or in a flush situation where I was maybe trying to load up on replacements out of my best cow.

 

[backhoeboogie]

BC I am a part timer. I have a full time job besides the cows. I am small potatoes - lucky if I net $30K. I run a bull with the herd for simplicity reasons. Secondly I am still trying to get my numbers up and retaining heifers in order to keep a third to a half ear on the gals in the pasture. At the moment I am two years out from being back to a terminal operation. If we have another drought in between it could be much longer or I could be selling back again. I simply cannot see making things more complicated or cutting into the profit margin.

My facilities are adequate but it still takes me the better part of a day to round them through and work them. When more head are added it is going to be a little longer than that. It it took me ten minutes per cow to AI, I'd be sacraficing much more time.

The old saying about not fixing things that aren't broke or busted comes to mind.

If I take an early retirement, I'd rather not rock the boat and spend some more time fishing rather than chasing cows.

 

[AudieWyoming]

20 years ago when I left the dairy and bought the ranch in Wyoming sexed semen was "here, just around the corner" from being commercially available. {Of course 20 years before that, when I was in high school, it was just a couple of years away at that time.}
My original plan, to use my A.I. skills on a good herd of commercial cows, and produce black or black baldie bred heifers for the herds that liked terminal bulls, but were not big enough to run a seperate herd to make their own replacments.

Of course sexed semen turned out to still be a ways away. Next thing I knew I had the chance to buy a nice little set of Angus heifers and he would tranfer the papers with them. If I'm going to mess with a few reg. I just as well look for a few more and see if I can't sell 1 or 2 bulls at a little bit of a premium while I am waiting on sexed semen...... Now all the cows are registered and sexed semen is almost viable. :clap: :nod:

Half of the fun and excitement at the dairy was every new holstien calf looked different, it was like Christmas everyday to see what you got. I even tried to mark the red factor cows to try and get a red one once in a while.
With the angus the only big surprise is Heifer or Bull. (I guess you could watch for genetic defects, but I can live without that.) The cows that could be the bull mothers I don't mind getting a heifer out of either.

As BC said in his opening there is a place for sexed semen in beef herd management, but most cases won't want to mess with it.@

 

[pdfangus]

well like someone said I been waiting on it for twenty years and now that it is here it is too expensive and the bulls that are sorted are not the bulls I desire to use and the conception is lower.

the one thing I would possibly consider it for is that odd cow who is a good producer but never has a daughter to replace her. but I suspect that there is something in that cow that influneces her having bulls and she might have even less possibilty of conception in trying to force gender.

I finally decided that life is a crap shoot anyway. Perhaps I am not smart enough to know what I need. breed the cows and like someone else said....enjoy that first peek under the tail of the new born calf.

I bought five embyos from an embryo flush one time trying to get a bull for our herd that I could not afford to buy any other way. still spent a good bit of money but less than I could have bought a bull from that outfit for. Put em in and they all stuck and when the repro vet came back to sonogram they were all heifers. He was ecstatic and walking about six inches above the ground. He had been the vet on both ends of the process so he made out pretty good.

he noticed that I was less enthused and questioned me and said that most of his customers would kill to get that kind of conception and all heifers.

I simply said, "Doc, I am tickled with the conceptions. But the objective of this was to try to steal a bull."

 

[novatech]

Boils down to economics. With Brahman the heifers are pure gold if bred right. Spending an extra 100 bucks is worth the expense. I will say that it should be limited to the most fertile AI cows. And I do not agree at all that it takes more semen. (The straws are actually half the size of normal.) It takes semen in the right place at the right time.

 

[dun]

Boils down to economics. With Brahman the heifers are pure gold if bred right. Spending an extra 100 bucks is worth the expense. I will say that it should be limited to the most fertile AI cows. And I do not agree at all that it takes more semen. (The straws are actually half the size of normal.) It takes semen in the right place at the right time.

More semen cost may have been a better term. The additioanl cost of the sexed and the lower conception rate so you have to repeat more breedings

 

[novaman]

More semen cost may have been a better term. The additioanl cost of the sexed and the lower conception rate so you have to repeat more breedings

The sexed semen runs twice the cost of conventional for the same bull. The conception rates are usually 75% of what your normal conception rate is running on conventional. That means if you are getting 66% right now (2 out of 3) you would be getting about 50% with sexed (1 out of 2). Say you are breeding 30 head. That means with conventional you would get 20 bred on the first round whereas with sexed you would only have 15 after one round. After round 2 you would be sitting around 27 bred with conventional and 22 bred with sexed. So after ~42 days of breeding you would only have a few left with a conventional program but 8 head left under the sexed. How many out there would accept having 27% of your herd open after 2 full breeding cycles? If this were a dairy situation it would be more digestible but with beef it is all about consistency of the calf crop and tight calving windows are highly desirable. I can't remember how much money you lose every day a cow/heifer runs open but it adds up fast. The offspring better be worth more because they are already behind and they haven't even squirted out yet.

 

[novatech]

Boils down to economics. With Brahman the heifers are pure gold if bred right. Spending an extra 100 bucks is worth the expense. I will say that it should be limited to the most fertile AI cows. And I do not agree at all that it takes more semen. (The straws are actually half the size of normal.) It takes semen in the right place at the right time.

More semen cost may have been a better term. The additioanl cost of the sexed and the lower conception rate so you have to repeat more breedings

I agree. That is why I suggest only using on the cows most fertile for AI breeding. That and the fact that the heifers/bulls value has to justify the effort and expense.
With Brahmans most buyers like to go to the big boys like V8 or Huggins. For the little guy the premium is in the heifers. About a $1500 difference. With that amount of difference it may be worth the hassle and extra time to get them bred. I could see someone using it to develop some special pedigree for replacements, but as a general rule it would be hard to justify it. Like anything else, one needs to pencil it out for their own program first.
I think the expense may be justified if you are getting the long term genetics desired.
For me, the down side was throwing off my calving season and there were far fewer bulls to choose from.

 

[TexasBred]

Boils down to economics. With Brahman the heifers are pure gold if bred right. Spending an extra 100 bucks is worth the expense. I will say that it should be limited to the most fertile AI cows. And I do not agree at all that it takes more semen. (The straws are actually half the size of normal.) It takes semen in the right place at the right time.

That's always the primary problem...and if you don't get it right the first time "it takes more semen".

 

[bigbull338]

to use sexed semen on reg cows you have to have 2 things.1 is an above av herd of cows.2 is an above ave bull.if you specialize in show heifers.then sexed semen would work real well.because those heifers can be sold for big money.

 

[LauraleesFarm]

My vet advises only using sexed semen on first breeding heifers. He has not seen it to be cost effective in a mature cow because of poor conception rates. But the dairies around here use sexed semen regularly, just on the heifers. Everything older gets routine AI.
Seeing what a dairy bull calf is worth (very little) I can see how sexed semen works for dairy. In beef, I don't see how it is worth the extra cost.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

My vet advises only using sexed semen on first breeding heifers. He has not seen it to be cost effective in a mature cow because of poor conception rates. But the dairies around here use sexed semen regularly, just on the heifers. Everything older gets routine AI.
Seeing what a dairy bull calf is worth (very little) I can see how sexed semen works for dairy. In beef, I don't see how it is worth the extra cost.

In the pursuit of perfection, by focusing on proven protocol results, dairy agendas seem logical. In using sexed semen in beef herd management, the practice would seem to be practical if the purpose was to build a breeding herd of one's curent genetics QUICKLY, thereby "leap-frogging" years of waiting for female propagation to occur through natural reproduction. Just as the results of "linebreeding" jusify that procedure, so would the use of 'sexed semen' be warranted - with this admonition: the unequivocal use of as-close-to-perfect selection of Genetics and Phenotype seedstock as it is possible to acquire! There are no other options - Reasonable costs notwithstanding.

DOC HARRIS

 

[hereford]

If the value in gender difference between your calves is $200 or more and you can get 55% conception rate, you should have been using sexed semen yesterday.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

The studs recommend using sexed semen on only HEIFERS and do not recommend using it for flushes.
One stud normally has 8 mil sperm count in normal straw & 1 (ONE) mil in sexed semen. It only takes 1 sperm to fertilize an egg, but I prefer having a bunch of them floating around. :shock:
I do raise & sell show heifers (that's my main money makers) - but it is not worth the lower conception rate to me. Think about it - you are looking at a normal 50% heifer ratio - they guarantee 80% (??) - lower conception & costs more. Does NOT pencil out in our operation. And, if you are looking to keep a 60 day calving season - more reason not to use it.
You say pick out your best cows - but you are NOT supposed to use it on cows - or flushing.

 

[dun]

The studs recommend using sexed semen on only HEIFERS and do not recommend using it for flushes.
One stud normally has 8 mil sperm count in normal straw & 1 (ONE) mil in sexed semen. It only takes 1 sperm to fertilize an egg, but I prefer having a bunch of them floating around. :shock:
I do raise & sell show heifers (that's my main money makers) - but it is not worth the lower conception rate to me. Think about it - you are looking at a normal 50% heifer ratio - they guarantee 80% (??) - lower conception & costs more. Does NOT pencil out in our operation. And, if you are looking to keep a 60 day calving season - more reason not to use it.
You say pick out your best cows - but you are NOT supposed to use it on cows - or flushing.

The calving season length is an excellent point.

 

[VanC]

I read recently that only about 10% of beef cattle bred each year in the U.S. are done so using AI. That said, I doubt that sexed semen will catch on anytime soon in the beef industry. It makes a lot more sense in the dairy industry where there is usually a much bigger difference in value between heifer and bull calves. Dairy people also normally have more daily contact with their cows and heifers for observing signs of heat.