Would this make you quit???

[bandit80]

I have a landlord and friend who raises cattle. He rents his pasture to me, because it is much farther from him and he has cut back on the number of cows he runs. He rents another place that is much closer to him. He had somewehre around 35 cows to calve this winter/spring. He generally starts calving late Dec-early jan.

A little background. This guy is a former vet, who went to work for a feed company. His job requires him to be gone quite a bit, and he relies on some others to watch over his cattle while he is gone.

Long story short, he has 19 cows that lost their calves. We had a rough winter, and a rough start to spring. I think that would be enough for me to say, I quit. I feel sorry for him. I wish there was something I could do to help him with calving, but I have my own job and own cattle to tend to.

 

[TexasBred]

Bandit, I don't know if I'd quit but I'd sure fire the guy who said he'd watch over them. One little pasture of cattle doesn't take that much time or energy. I'd also be wanting to see carcasses to make sure they didn't take a ride off from the place.

 

[bandit80]

Oh there were carcasses. My brother actually hayed them one time because the helper couldn't get his tractor started. Brother said he counted 9 dead calves laying outside the pen in a frozen pile. But you are right, it shouldn't take too much extra time or energy to watch over 35 or so cows.

 

[bigbull338]

id fire my help.an find some good help that i could trust when i had tobe gone.but i would not quit running cattle.id cull the 19 that lost their calves.take that money an buy back as meny as i could.

 

[cfpinz]

What were the reasons for death? How about adjusting the calving season?

 

[bandit80]

id fire my help.an find some good help that i could trust when i had tobe gone.but i would not quit running cattle.id cull the 19 that lost their calves.take that money an buy back as meny as i could.

That is what I would do as well. Problem is, he likes his cattle too much, has AI'd for probably 30+ years. He did not want to lose the genetics he has. So he is keeping them all. He will lose money this year. Alot of money.

I don't think anything could ever make me quit, but you would sure question your methods.

 

[bandit80]

What were the reasons for death? How about adjusting the calving season?

Deaths were mainly due to severe cold with not proper shelter, cows calving in wet, muddy lots, and calves did not have appropriate shelter and were trampled to death laying around the bale ring when a few days old. This can happen every now and then, but he had several die this way.

Calving season is a whole nuther issue. He thinks he can run more cows on the ground he rents by calving in December and weaning in June. Thus, decreasing the nutrient requirements of his cows for a portion of the growing season, from weaning through October. His philosophy is, he has to feed hay Nov-March/April anyway, so he might as well be calving. Right or wrong, that's how he does it.

Obviously, a later calving date, March-April would lead to better weather during calving. I personally think he should have fall calvers, Sep-Oct.

I have always been one to offer advice if asked for, but never to tell a guys how to do things if they don't ask.

 

[1982vett]

I don't know. Just because he has another job and has someone that is supposed to be taking care of them, doesn't relieve him of the resposibility of knowing what is going on.

 

[Brandonm22]

I don't know. IF I couldn't do a better job than that, I think I would sell out. Now if I came back, I would have a different herdsman and my calving season would start 60 days later.

 

[Jogeephus]

id fire my help.an find some good help that i could trust when i had tobe gone.but i would not quit running cattle.id cull the 19 that lost their calves.take that money an buy back as meny as i could.

That is what I would do as well. Problem is, he likes his cattle too much, has AI'd for probably 30+ years. He did not want to lose the genetics he has. So he is keeping them all. He will lose money this year. Alot of money.

Maybe its his genetics that is the problem. Not meaning to stir up a fuss here but I often wonder is all this genetic improvement isn't breeding out some of the unseen things that make cattle - cattle. Take birddogs. I used to have some of the best gun dogs there were but now its hard to find one that hasn't been high bred for field trials and pen birds. As for hunting instinct, most stink but they sure are pretty and man is that tail straight. Take roses. The beautiful array of color has been bred for. Smell is gone as is the disease resistance. Personally I don't care what the cows pedidgree is. If it can't wean a healhy calf I don't need it. Oh, and I don't care what the bird dog looks like either as long as he can find me some birds - preferably wild. ;-) :nod:

 

[I luv herfrds]

I wouldn't quit.
Sometimes you have your give your opinion, even if it is not asked for.

Get rid of the hired guy who was not on the ball. Yes it's cold, yes it's wet, get over it.
Next the guy needs to look at his operation. Losing 19 calves is just beyond belief, especially when it is something that can be avoided. A simple change in his calving schedule would help solve this problem.
Lack of proper bedding and shelter for his animals is HIS fault. Now if he was a vet as you say then he should know this.

 

[grannysoo]

I'm not going to quit, but loosing 19 of 35 calves? Either a poorly run operation or genetic problems here.

 

[TexasBred]

Bandit, obviously this guy has put his feed company job ahead of everything else. Don't know if anything would change his method of operation. Doesn't sound like the kind of guy that would even appreciate any helpful suggestions. A vet of all people should have a little knowledge of calving situations and the potentials for disaster.

 

[bandit80]

Bandit, obviously this guy has put his feed company job ahead of everything else. Don't know if anything would change his method of operation. Doesn't sound like the kind of guy that would even appreciate any helpful suggestions. A vet of all people should have a little knowledge of calving situations and the potentials for disaster.

I would agree. I really think he would benefit the most from moving calving season 90 days earlier or 75 days later. Either calve in Sep-Oct or March. I just felt sorry for the guy. I consider him a friend, and heck I dated his daughter for 2 years in high school. Got to know him real well. I just wish I could do more to help, but as much as I hate to admit it, I do have limitations.

 

[jasrnch]

Hmmm! maybe thats why he isn't a practicing vet anymore?

 

[3waycross]

Bandit, obviously this guy has put his feed company job ahead of everything else. Don't know if anything would change his method of operation. Doesn't sound like the kind of guy that would even appreciate any helpful suggestions. A vet of all people should have a little knowledge of calving situations and the potentials for disaster.

I would agree. I really think he would benefit the most from moving calving season 90 days earlier or 75 days later. Either calve in Sep-Oct or March. I just felt sorry for the guy. I consider him a friend, and heck I dated his daughter for 2 years in high school. Got to know him real well. I just wish I could do more to help, but as much as I hate to admit it, I do have limitations.

Why NOT tell him what you think. I am guessing he would have a hard time defending his system right about now. Sometimes we get so close to a situation that we can't see the forrest for the trees, at best he will thank you for caring and think about what you said. At worst he will ignore you and continue to lose money. Either way you should have no regrets.

 

[Farmer Z]

I don't mean to be rude but it looks like he's already quit.

 

[KenB]

What were the reasons for death? How about adjusting the calving season?

Deaths were mainly due to severe cold with not proper shelter, cows calving in wet, muddy lots, and calves did not have appropriate shelter and were trampled to death laying around the bale ring when a few days old. This can happen every now and then, but he had several die this way.


Why were they in a wet muddy lot instead of a pasture? (easier for helper to feed maybe.)
It seems like there wasn't enough hay feeders, and the cows were to hungry. (helper not doing his job?)

Calving season is a whole nuther issue. He thinks he can run more cows on the ground he rents by calving in December and weaning in June. Thus, decreasing the nutrient requirements of his cows for a portion of the growing season, from weaning through October. His philosophy is, he has to feed hay Nov-March/April anyway, so he might as well be calving. Right or wrong, that's how he does it.

Obviously, a later calving date, March-April would lead to better weather during calving. I personally think he should have fall calvers, Sep-Oct.

I have always been one to offer advice if asked for, but never to tell a guys how to do things if they don't ask.

 

[msscamp]

I have a landlord and friend who raises cattle. He rents his pasture to me, because it is much farther from him and he has cut back on the number of cows he runs. He rents another place that is much closer to him. He had somewehre around 35 cows to calve this winter/spring. He generally starts calving late Dec-early jan.

A little background. This guy is a former vet, who went to work for a feed company. His job requires him to be gone quite a bit, and he relies on some others to watch over his cattle while he is gone.

That was his first mistake. No one has a stronger vested interest to watch out for his cattle than the owner. I'm not saying it's impossible to find a responsible, trustworthy person to watch out for the, but one is always taking a chance when one chooses to go that route. I don't care how good the hired man/woman is, they do not have the motivation that the owner would.


Long story short, he has 19 cows that lost their calves. We had a rough winter, and a rough start to spring. I think that would be enough for me to say, I quit. I feel sorry for him. I wish there was something I could do to help him with calving, but I have my own job and own cattle to tend to.

No, it would not make me quit, but it would make me seriously re-evaluate my objectives and priorities.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Personally I think both guys should be reported, fined and the cattle removed. Its the owners responsibility to ensure that the animals are being tended to and the hired helps responsibility to tend to those animals. Anyone who isn't intelligent enough nor hard working enough to calve out their animals properly shouldn't have those animals.

Rod