Working dog thoughts

[CowboyRam]

Maybe if you want to see how your cows will react to a dog. Have someone with a good dog work your cows, and in this process you can learn a little about working cows with a dog.

 

[rnh2]

I've had Border Collie and Heelers for 40+ years, I've always been able to take them to work everyday it sure makes a good bonding and understanding environment. They take time.

What's your opinion on 1) using healers on goats/sheep and 2) using any stock dogs with guardian dogs?

 

[Ebenezer]

Get a Corgi. That way you don't have to walk fast.

 

[Brute 23]

My guess is those cattle are more spoiled than bad. I bet with some experienced help they will pile right in with the others.

 

[Allenw]

What ever you do is going to take work and time.

WBV58 has the right idea, build a bigger pen or trap to gather them in and feed until they settle down. If they can be allowed to escape through the catch pen a few times you can easily catch them when ready, a secure car is required they will hit it.

Where do they have access to water? If you can control that you can catch them. I would shut them off all water but water inside a pen if possible.

 

[Dave]

Neighbors treeing Border Collies and what they had up a tree in his yard. They can be useful for things other than moving cows.

 

[snakegap1]

Good afternoon, all.

My wife and I are considering purchasing a border collie for help rounding up cattle and sorting. I need opinions on whether or not it's worth it.

Our current situation: both off farm jobs which have us off farm 10 hours / day, 5 days a week. Both less than 30 y/o. We are usually running between 35 and 50 pair. Half dozen replacement heifers and half dozen feeder steers. Couple of bulls.

We are working on a lot of infrastructure (corrals / extra pens), but not where we need to be and probably 5-7 years from being there.

Most of our brood cows will follow a feed trough pulled by a UTV through anything, but we always have a few that turn and run at the first sign of the catchpen. They usually take a few calves with them when they turn tail. I've sold the worst ones about it, and a few others will take their place.

During weaning / sale day this year, we had a couple of bad apples that kept turning the entire herd of calves and culls. 6 weeks later and we still have a 4 of them that refuse to be caught. They know the barn is trouble for them and will run you over before going in there. I've been feeding the whole group of replacements and feeders in the barn, but the sale calves won't budge. This is where I'm thinking a herding dog would come in handy, and it would have paid for itself in calf weight loss from unintentional weaning and increased stress.

We've been sent videos of the dog and it's already started well on sheep and small groups of calves. 1.5 years old. The owner / trainer said she needs another few months of training before he's willing to turn her loose. She is from working stock.

My questions:

1. How much "working" will this dog need? I've been told at least once a week. Would letting my wife's goats out and letting her round them up count (a challenge for anyone without a feed bucket)? Would letting her move the feeder steers or replacement heifers between pastures be good enough? The real work would come in the spring and fall cattle workings, so only 2 days a year essentially.

2. Would this dog actually help us with moving cattle? I know this can depend on the dog and situation, but I wanted some opinions.

3. How much training will my cows need? Will they tear through everything the first time they get nipped?

Thank you in advance for your responses. I know next to nothing about dogs, much less working dogs. Everyone I know that has a "working" breed has an untrained high strung dog that doesn't listen to anything the owner tries to do with it.

You need a trained dog to start with and someone to help you learn to how to use him. I work cattle and sheep with a Border Collie and I hope to never be without one moving forward. The reason I would spend more and get a started dog is the fact that not all herding dogs want to work and if they don't you can't make them. My current dog will drive or fetch and with cattle you will probably need to drive them sometimes, with sheep you typically fetch. I have a younger dog I am trying to train now and having the cattle "dog broke" really helps. I can feed hay or put out feed and minerals and the cows just stay in a line and wait. I don't take him when checking calves though. If you like working with dogs I would say go for it but expect to pay 2500 plus for a green started dog.

 

[SmokinM]

Neighbors treeing Border Collies and what they had up a tree in his yard. They can be useful for things other than moving cows.

View attachment 24491View attachment 24492View attachment 24493

Thats illegal don't you know!

 

[Dave]

Thats illegal don't you know!

There is nothing here against the dogs treeing it. Just not supposed to shoot it over the dogs. He called the Game Dept. They said it is in your yard, shoot it. They don't want them hanging around close people. Told him not to tag it and they would stop by and pick it up. It got shoot.

 

[Travlr]

There is nothing here against the dogs treeing it. Just not supposed to shoot it over the dogs. He called the Game Dept. They said it is in your yard, shoot it. They don't want them hanging around close people. Told him not to tag it and they would stop by and pick it up. It got shoot.

I've been hiking my whole life, the Wasatch range, the Sierra, around Mount Rainier, the slick rock of southern Utah, the Black Hills, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Oregon, California, Washington state, Arizona, New Mexico... and I've never been lucky enough to see one... and you get one in your yard.

Life ain't fair.

(But I did see a wolverine.)

 

[Dave]

I've been hiking my whole life, the Wasatch range, the Sierra, around Mount Rainier, the slick rock of southern Utah, the Black Hills, Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Oregon, California, Washington state, Arizona, New Mexico... and I've never been lucky enough to see one... and you get one in your yard.

Life ain't fair.

(But I did see a wolverine.)

It was in the neighbor's yard, A half a mile (+/-) from my house. I have found 2 cat killed deer within 200 yards of the house this last year. A couple years ago I found 5 cat kills within 400 yards of the house. On fresh snow I have found tracks about 100 yards from my front door.

Between cowboying, ranching, logging, and running a full time trap line I have spent a lifetime in the out of doors. Pretty much all of it is areas with a high mountain lion population. I have seen 6. Five were just flashes that you see enough to realize it was a lion. One in the north Cascades didn't know I was around and I got to watch it for 20 minutes or more.

 

[50/50Farms]

I've seen two, neither for long. Seen tracks from many more. They are like strange ghosts, they can pass within 25 yards and you'd never know without a good dog on ya. Bears are the opposite. I've rarely been overly surprised by a bear, nor them by me. I did walk pretty much into one once and him into me, but we both decided after 30 or so interesting seconds that neither of us really wanted to fight.

 

[Dave]

My son put up a game camera. When he came back to check it there was a picture of a lion looking at it by the timer just 10 minutes after he set it up. You know that cat watched him set it up. The one I shot last January, I was maybe 15 yards from it when it stood up. You never know how many you walk by and they just lay there not moving.
Bears. I have been around lots of bears. Black bears don't bother me. The browns and grizzly bears are a different story. But they aren't around here.

 

[Travlr]

It was in the neighbor's yard, A half a mile (+/-) from my house. I have found 2 cat killed deer within 200 yards of the house this last year. A couple years ago I found 5 cat kills within 400 yards of the house. On fresh snow I have found tracks about 100 yards from my front door.

Between cowboying, ranching, logging, and running a full time trap line I have spent a lifetime in the out of doors. Pretty much all of it is areas with a high mountain lion population. I have seen 6. Five were just flashes that you see enough to realize it was a lion. One in the north Cascades didn't know I was around and I got to watch it for 20 minutes or more.

I've smelled them... I know they're there. Just never seen one. A bucket list item to be hopeful for.

 

[backhoeboogie]

They are a lot of work and not all work out. We have two Aussies. One is way young. Our eldest will do things like catch and hold chickens for us with out injury to the bird. She's pretty amazing. I have few cows now so there is not all that much "work" going on. Instincts are there.

 

[herofan]

I can't answer all your questions, but my grandfather bought a Border Collie pup in the 70s and trained it from an instruction manual. That was the smartest dog I ever saw. My grandfather would tell him to get the cows, and he would bring them in by himself.

He was gentle with the cattle, but they knew what was going on and participated. My grandfather had around 30 cows, so I don't know what works for larger herds.

This dog would take notes to people on the farm, sniff out lost tools, and all sorts of things.