WHY?

[plbcattle]

I just got a soil sample back and the recommendations. they recommend 2 tons lime per acre. and about 300lbs fertilizer to the acre. this will run me about $10,000. I don't cut my own hay, i buy it so I can run more haed on my place. My question is: why fertilize and lime when $10,000 can buy a lot of summpement,protein,good feed.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I fertilize I would rather spend the money on my place than in the pockets of someone else. Just one of the many choices we all face.

 

[Beefy]

True I agree with Caustic on this one. First priority has to go to the land. it takes care of you and your animals.

 

[denoginnizer]

I think its hard to beat high quality grass for cattle food. Some of my pasture requires fertilizer but due to money issues, I have elected to do half now and half next year. I am hoping that with light stocking and a little fertilizer I wont have to feed any hay.

 

[denoginnizer]

10000 sure would go a long ways towards renting more land.

 

[Wewild]

10000 sure would go a long ways towards renting more land.

That's a lot of land or some purty poor soil.

 

[dun]

FWIW, although the up front dollars are substantial, the back end costs will, in my opinion, more then make up for it. Better quality forage gives you higher weaning weights, better general herd health and the ability to not require outside purchase of as much feed. Or you can increase the stocking rate. Getting the fertility and particularly the ph where it needs to be will decrease the weeds which will also allow more high quality forage.
What you are pretty much seeing is the result of too many years of neglect, or it's marginal land being converted to pasture. If you continue to let the fertility and ph decline the problem just keeps getting worse.

dun

 

[icandoit]

I just got a soil sample back and the recommendations. they recommend 2 tons lime per acre. and about 300lbs fertilizer to the acre. this will run me about $10,000. I don't cut my own hay, i buy it so I can run more haed on my place. My question is: why fertilize and lime when $10,000 can buy a lot of summpement,protein,good feed.

My Questions are:

1. Is that a one time remedy or do you have to do that each year?
2. If each year, do you lower the tonage per acre each year?

Dick

 

[polledbull]

I just got a soil sample back and the recommendations. they recommend 2 tons lime per acre. and about 300lbs fertilizer to the acre. this will run me about $10,000. I don't cut my own hay, i buy it so I can run more haed on my place. My question is: why fertilize and lime when $10,000 can buy a lot of summpement,protein,good feed.

How many acres are you talking . It should cost around $70.00 per acre to put 2 ton of lime .As for the fertilizer , if want any grass this season , you had better put the fertilizer. However if your land needs 2 ton of lime per acre , you will not get the full benefit of the nitrogen in your fertilizer .I recommend you go with 1 ton of lime and the fertilizer and 1 ton again next year. if you dont incorporate the lime , I would not put 2 tons out at once. It will take the lime a long time ( 3-6 months) to get the ph in the soil headed in the right direction on pasture . So I would get it out asap .

 

[shorty]

The cost of the lime will be spread out over a few years lime lasts more than one year. Some forms of nitrogen will help to lower your PH , I know ammonium sulfate is one of them

 

[plbcattle]

the grass is not bad at all. I will spray 2-4-d to kill most of the weeds. my cattle have been culled on poor milk and low WW. My cows preform fine on the grass that is there now. I know the benifits of putting out the lime and fertilizer but I buy quality hay an my point is $10,000 will go along way to supplamenting them if they need it.

 

[jerry27150]

i agree 10,000 will buy a lot of hay.sometimes i think the same thing but i don't like hauling hay from somewhere else. lots of guys around here do that ( buy all their hay) my old man always figured the same way, he could get hay by doing others on shares

 

[plbcattle]

2 of my neighbors have land that they fertilize and I buy the hay. I haul it from their property to mine. Not a problem hauling. I just think that a little protein blocks when needed sure beats $10,000 to improve grass that they eat and I don't harvest. I rotate them in pastures so they have ample grazing grass

 

[Wewild]

2 of my neighbors have land that they fertilize and I buy the hay. I haul it from their property to mine. Not a problem hauling. I just think that a little protein blocks when needed sure beats $10,000 to improve grass that they eat and I don't harvest. I rotate them in pastures so they have ample grazing grass

So WHY did you ask if you had your mind set?

 

[Tod Dague]

What is your annual cost of hay?

 

[sidney411]

We are facing the same problem as you are. Our land has has cattle on it and hay cut off of it for 30 years that I know of. In the past 10 years there has been a lot more taken from the land then put back. Our hay has drastically decreased and the land has gotten poorer. It is now up to us and our pocketbooks to improve our impoverished land. It is not going to get any better on it's own. Every year it will get worse. We had to realize that if we start by putting out lime on this pasture this year and fertilizer on that pasture this year then next year we can do another pasture so we can begin building up the soil a little at a time. It took a long time for it to get this bad and it will take a long time for us to be able to afford to get it where it need to be. We have begun spraying for weeds also, we rotate which pastures we spray each year, hopefully in years down the road we can fertilize, lime, and spray more pastures and we will get more hay and the cows will get better grass. Here's an example of what I am talking about with poor fertility: Our hayfield is +\- 40 acres. 10 years ago they were cutting @300 bales in 3 cuttings. The 1st year (3 yrs ago) that my husband and I started managing the farm we got 87 bales total from the field! That's it! This past year we are up to 140 bales, a far cry from what it used to be, but we have started taking soil samples and fertilizing per the samples and have put out an 18 wheeler load of lime last year (sorry, I can't remember how much it was per acre though). I am determined to make this place better, no matter how little we can afford to do each year, we will at least do a little each year.

Sorry my post was so long

 

[dun]

We are facing the same problem as you are. Our land has has cattle on it and hay cut off of it for 30 years that I know of. In the past 10 years there has been a lot more taken from the land then put back. Our hay has drastically decreased and the land has gotten poorer. It is now up to us and our pocketbooks to improve our impoverished land. It is not going to get any better on it's own. Every year it will get worse. We had to realize that if we start by putting out lime on this pasture this year and fertilizer on that pasture this year then next year we can do another pasture so we can begin building up the soil a little at a time. It took a long time for it to get this bad and it will take a long time for us to be able to afford to get it where it need to be. We have begun spraying for weeds also, we rotate which pastures we spray each year, hopefully in years down the road we can fertilize, lime, and spray more pastures and we will get more hay and the cows will get better grass. Here's an example of what I am talking about with poor fertility: Our hayfield is +\- 40 acres. 10 years ago they were cutting @300 bales in 3 cuttings. The 1st year (3 yrs ago) that my husband and I started managing the farm we got 87 bales total from the field! That's it! This past year we are up to 140 bales, a far cry from what it used to be, but we have started taking soil samples and fertilizing per the samples and have put out an 18 wheeler load of lime last year (sorry, I can't remember how much it was per acre though). I am determined to make this place better, no matter how little we can afford to do each year, we will at least do a little each year.

Sorry my post was so long

You made the point better then I did! Good for you. I see too many people that squak about the problem but don;t ever realize that they have it in their power to fix or at least start fixing it.

dun

 

[jt]

you dont have to do it all at one time.. if i had to choose between lime an fertilizer in a given year with soil as low in ph as yours is.. the best choice is the lime. if your soil is bad enough to need 2 tons/acre, then you need the lime, and it will release the nutrients that the bad soil is holding back now because of the low ph.. it is a vicious cycle between the fert and lime.

maybe someone can expand on this or explain it better.


good luck


jt

 

[Dave]

Although it is the same issue of soil fertility, lime and fertilizer are really two seperate issues. Lime is a long term issue and fertilizer is generaly an annual or short term issue. There is a dramatic difference in availability and utilization the different nutrients by the grass based on the soil pH. The reason for liming is to put the soil pH at the level where plants will utilize teh nutreints the best. Fertilizing is simply feeding the plants the nutrients they need to grow. Some nutreints like nitrogen and sulfur often need to be applied annually. Others like potassium if available in large enough quanity will remain in the soil for years.
Economics do play a part in making these decisions. Do you have long term control of the land? If not lime may not be a wise investment. Beings as lime is a more long term soil addative you can do part this year and other parts later to spread out the cost. You can look at alternative sources of both lime and fertilizer. I know one farmer who has been using chicken manure from a layer farm. It provides an economical source of nutrients and because of the calcium fed to the hens it has also raised his soil pH to good levels without using lime.
Unless there is land available in your area to rent real cheap fertilizer will always pay for itself. Remeber you wouldn't expect your cows to do well if you didn't feed them. You can't expect your grass to do well if you don't feed it.
Dave

 

[plbcattle]

my annual hay cost is around $6000