Why was R-CALF formed

[Oldtimer]

Some of the questions and comments arising lately on the board bring me to remind everyone about why R-CALF came to be...

In 1998 the R-CALF USA was founded as a foundation to represent and file three trade cases on behalf of the U.S. cattle industry. Trade laws are different from domestic laws in that it is generally required that the domestic industry monitors them and files the appropriate petitions when a trade violation occurs that is damaging U.S. prices.

R-CALF USA filed a live cattle and anti-dumping (selling below the cost of production) case against Canada and Mexico , and a countervailing (subsidy) case against Canada. The U.S. International Trade Commission (ITC) in January dismissed the Mexico case. In the summer of 1999, the Department of Commerce (DOC) found that Canada was subsidizing the production of live cattle, but not at a high enough rate to warrant penalty tariffs. The DOC in July of 1999 also found Canada was dumping cattle into the U.S. at a high enough rate to warrant tariffs equivalent to the violation to be put on. The U.S. cattle market saw an immediate improvement in their markets.

Unfortunately, the ITC ruled in November of 1999, contrary to the DOC findings, that U.S. producers were not “materially injured” by the dumping of Canadian cattle and the ITC lifted the anti-dumping tariffs imposed by the DOC.

Now with the precedence set by the BSE closure of the border and the record US cattle prices that followed the closure, there will be ample evidence to prove the negative impact of the Canadian cattle and beef on the US producer if/when R-CALF files another trade case...

The U.S. cattle trade cases resulted in the largest trade case in the history of the U.S. and had more U.S. Senators testifying at the ITC hearing than any previous trade case. Over 27,000 cattle producers and 120 associations from across the U.S. signed on supporting the cases.

If/When another hearing is held I look for much more support- not only legislators and producers- but a huge majority of the local business persons from the Ag (cattle) areas- all of who saw how when the border was closed the US cattle prices excelled and actually made the dying Ag communities thrive again...

 

[frenchie]

Some of the questions and comments arising lately on the board bring me to remind everyone about why R-CALF came to be...



In the summer of 1999, the Department of Commerce (DOC) found that Canada was subsidizing the production of live cattle, but not at a high enough rate to warrant penalty tariffs. The DOC in July of 1999 also found Canada was dumping cattle into the U.S. at a high enough rate to warrant tariffs equivalent to the violation to be put on. The U.S. cattle market saw an immediate improvement in their markets.

Unfortunately, the ITC ruled in November of 1999, contrary to the DOC findings, that U.S. producers were not “materially injured” by the dumping of Canadian cattle and the ITC lifted the anti-dumping tariffs imposed by the DOC.

How is that possible Oldtimer that ..that U.S. producers were not “materially injured” by the dumping of Canadian cattle ..

Now with the precedence set by the BSE closure of the border and the record US cattle prices that followed the closure, there will be ample evidence to prove the negative impact of the Canadian cattle and beef on the US producer if/when R-CALF files another trade case...

Not if ....when



If/When another hearing is held I look for much more support- not only legislators and producers- but a huge majority of the local business persons from the Ag (cattle) areas- all of who saw how when the border was closed the US cattle prices excelled and actually made the dying Ag communities thrive again...
[/quote]

Protectnism pure and simple

 

[Beef11]

Good stuff Oldtimer thats what kind of stuff i like to learn about.

 

[frenchie]

Some of the questions and comments arising lately on the board bring me to remind everyone about why R-CALF came to be...



In the summer of 1999, the Department of Commerce (DOC) found that Canada was subsidizing the production of live cattle, but not at a high enough rate to warrant penalty tariffs. The DOC in July of 1999 also found Canada was dumping cattle into the U.S. at a high enough rate to warrant tariffs equivalent to the violation to be put on. The U.S. cattle market saw an immediate improvement in their markets.

Unfortunately, the ITC ruled in November of 1999, contrary to the DOC findings, that U.S. producers were not “materially injured” by the dumping of Canadian cattle and the ITC lifted the anti-dumping tariffs imposed by the DOC.

How is that possible Oldtimer that ..that U.S. producers were not “materially injured” by the dumping of Canadian cattle ..


I ask you again Oldtimer

How is that possible Oldtimer that ..that U.S. producers were not “materially injured” by the dumping of Canadian cattle ..

 

[Oldtimer]

Some of the questions and comments arising lately on the board bring me to remind everyone about why R-CALF came to be...



In the summer of 1999, the Department of Commerce (DOC) found that Canada was subsidizing the production of live cattle, but not at a high enough rate to warrant penalty tariffs. The DOC in July of 1999 also found Canada was dumping cattle into the U.S. at a high enough rate to warrant tariffs equivalent to the violation to be put on. The U.S. cattle market saw an immediate improvement in their markets.

Unfortunately, the ITC ruled in November of 1999, contrary to the DOC findings, that U.S. producers were not “materially injured” by the dumping of Canadian cattle and the ITC lifted the anti-dumping tariffs imposed by the DOC.

How is that possible Oldtimer that ..that U.S. producers were not “materially injured” by the dumping of Canadian cattle ..


I ask you again Oldtimer

How is that possible Oldtimer that ..that U.S. producers were not “materially injured” by the dumping of Canadian cattle ..

There was not enough evidence to prove that the subsidized Canadian cattle being dumped influenced the price US producers received or to what degree-- but now that the border has been closed- and we saw the record prices US cattle rose to after it closed, the evidence and testimony is now available showing that Canadian cattle negatively impact the amount the US producer receives and enough to justify penalty tariffs......

 

[frenchie]

Some of the questions and comments arising lately on the board bring me to remind everyone about why R-CALF came to be...



In the summer of 1999, the Department of Commerce (DOC) found that Canada was subsidizing the production of live cattle, but not at a high enough rate to warrant penalty tariffs. The DOC in July of 1999 also found Canada was dumping cattle into the U.S. at a high enough rate to warrant tariffs equivalent to the violation to be put on. The U.S. cattle market saw an immediate improvement in their markets.

Unfortunately, the ITC ruled in November of 1999, contrary to the DOC findings, that U.S. producers were not “materially injured” by the dumping of Canadian cattle and the ITC lifted the anti-dumping tariffs imposed by the DOC.

How is that possible Oldtimer that ..that U.S. producers were not “materially injured” by the dumping of Canadian cattle ..


I ask you again Oldtimer

How is that possible Oldtimer that ..that U.S. producers were not “materially injured” by the dumping of Canadian cattle ..

There was not enough evidence to prove that the subsidized Canadian cattle being dumped influenced the price US producers received or to what degree-- but now that the border has been closed- and we saw the record prices US cattle rose to after it closed, the evidence and testimony is now available showing that Canadian cattle negatively impact the amount the US producer receives and enough to justify penalty tariffs......

Ah but Oldtimer that proves nothing You had record amounts Of Canadian Box beef coming over as well..And still record prices .

How do you explain the fact that the U.S Beef prices have not crashed ..With that flood of Canadian cattle coming over the border. ;-)

 

[Beef11]

if we had record beef coming over from Canada. Seems the northern neighbors shouldn't have in to tough of a state. Canadian lack of Slaughterhouses isn't a U.S. problem.

On another note i believe that our high prices aren't and weren't that affected by the canadian live cattle trade. Japan got shut down and the border is open yet still high prices. Many factors at play we haven't discussed. Canada wise their low prices weren't completely caused by the border closing. There were internal factors also contributing.

 

[Oldtimer]

frenchie- Like I said before- I wouldn't call the border "open" to live cattle...No OTM's and may not be for a year or two- only UTM and then heavily regulated with pre shipment segregation on heifers, preg testing, hot iron branding, traceback ID, requirement to have a US broker, sealed truck shipping, segregated feedlots, feedlot registration and inspections, packing facilities registration, inspection and segregation, and pages and pages of paperwork -- all of which cost time and money which makes it a lot more economical to pay more for domestic US cattle.....

 

[frenchie]

frenchie- Like I said before- I wouldn't call the border "open" to live cattle...No OTM's and may not be for a year or two- only UTM and then heavily regulated with pre shipment segregation on heifers, preg testing, hot iron branding, traceback ID, requirement to have a US broker, sealed truck shipping, segregated feedlots, feedlot registration and inspections, packing facilities registration, inspection and segregation, and pages and pages of paperwork -- all of which cost time and money which makes it a lot more economical to pay more for domestic US cattle.....

But R-calf said you would be flooded with cattle.Remember...hmmm guess they Did not know at all.

 

[Oldtimer]

frenchie- Like I said before- I wouldn't call the border "open" to live cattle...No OTM's and may not be for a year or two- only UTM and then heavily regulated with pre shipment segregation on heifers, preg testing, hot iron branding, traceback ID, requirement to have a US broker, sealed truck shipping, segregated feedlots, feedlot registration and inspections, packing facilities registration, inspection and segregation, and pages and pages of paperwork -- all of which cost time and money which makes it a lot more economical to pay more for domestic US cattle.....

But R-calf said you would be flooded with cattle.Remember...hmmm guess they Did not know at all.

Thanks to R-CALF, NCBA, Farm Bureau and Farmers Union they all came pretty much to agreement and pressured USDA into adopting these rules which prevented the flood....

 

[frenchie]

Oldtimer ..What do you have to say about this article..

December 5, 2005

Darrell R. Mark, Ph.D.

Asst. Professor, Department of Agricultural Economics, University of Nebraska



Canadian Cattle Imports Up, But Prices Remain Strong



Weekly data on the number of feeder and slaughter cattle imported from Canada since trade resumed in late July 2005 through November 26, 2005 reveals that after a gradual initial increase, imports of Canadian cattle are higher than the 2000-2002 average. Figure 1 shows that feeder cattle imports have been consistently higher than the 3-year historical average before the trade ban. In fact, during this 19 week time period (July 23 to Nov 26), feeder cattle imports from Canada were 169,701, up 89% from the 2000-02 average. However, this year’s feeder imports thus far are 25.9% lower compared to 2002 when record Canadian feeder cattle were imported due to drought in Canada,. While weekly feeder cattle imports have been almost consistently higher than the historical average, slaughter cattle imports remained below its historical average until October. Figure 2 shows that fed cattle imports during August and September were generally between 10,000 and 12,000 head per week, compared to an historical weekly pace between 15,000 and 20,000. While Canadian fed cattle imports were higher than the average during October, it appears that fed imports may be beginning their seasonal decline for December. For the 19 week period of imports during 2005, fed cattle imports have totaled 239,075 head, 25.5% lower than the 2000-02 average.

Likely due to not a full yr of imports.



Weekly import data does not include all live cattle imports and is subject to revision in monthly trade data. Because September is the most recent monthly trade data available, weekly and monthly data can only be compared for August and September. Doing so suggests that total cattle imports (feeder and slaughter cattle) from Canada are substantially higher than the weekly data in Figures 1 and 2 suggest.



While the return of live cattle imports to normal or above-normal levels has likely resulted in some pressure on feeder cattle and fed cattle prices, it is also important to keep the magnitude of the trade impact and current price levels in mind. Historically, the average Canadian feeder and slaughter cattle imports from 2000-02 accounted for 2.77% of U.S. federally inspected slaughter. That might have caused prices to be 4-5%, or $3-4/cwt, lower than they otherwise would have been, everything else being equal. So far in 2005, total feeder and fed cattle imports from Canada have been equal to 3.15% of U.S. slaughter. This would likely translate to a 4.5-5.5%, or $3.50-4.50/cwt, price impact, close to the historical level. However, because most of the feeder cattle imports have not yet been finished and slaughtered, it is likely that the price impact so far is actually smaller.


4.5% to 5.5% is a market crash?


Despite higher live cattle imports, price levels for feeder and slaughter cattle have remained strong in the U.S. The table below shows that current prices for fed cattle are over $2 higher than last year, and likely higher than many forecasted for the fourth quarter. Prices for yearling steers are also up compared to last year: about $12/cwt in both Kansas and Nebraska. Similarly, steer calf prices are $13/cwt higher than last year in Kansas and Nebraska. So, even with the higher Canadian cattle imports, tight domestic cattle supplies and relatively good retail beef demand have apparently supported cattle prices.

 

[Oldtimer]

Yeah Frenchie- Thats what I just said... It cost about $5 cwt to import in live fats and around $15 cwt to bring in and bother with Canadian feeder cattle ......That and the tight supply of US cattle is what has kept US prices strong.....Luckily demand has stayed good with the increased prices- something we've been told by the USDA and NCBA wouldn't happen- that everyone would switch to chicken....

 

[frenchie]

Here is the problem with your statement you said There was no larger number Of Canadian Cattle coming across..Turns out there is higher numbers than before the border closed

Read it again Ot...

That might have caused prices to be 4-5%, or $3-4/cwt, lower than they otherwise would have been, everything else being equal. So far in 2005, total feeder and fed cattle imports from Canada have been equal to 3.15% of U.S. slaughter. This would likely translate to a 4.5-5.5%, or $3.50-4.50/cwt, price impact, That might have caused prices to be 4-5%, or $3-4/cwt, lower than they otherwise would have been, everything else being equal. So far in 2005, total feeder and fed cattle imports from Canada have been equal to 3.15% of U.S. slaughter. This would likely translate to a 4.5-5.5%, or $3.50-4.50/cwt, price impact, close to the historical leveThat might have caused prices to be 4-5%, or $3-4/cwt, lower than they otherwise would have been, everything else being equal. So far in 2005, total feeder and fed cattle imports from Canada have been equal to 3.15% of U.S. slaughter. This would likely translate to a 4.5-5.5%, or $3.50-4.50/cwt, price impact, close to the historical level[/b]

 

[Oldtimer]

frenchie- Many of the "experts" are speculating that cattle prices will never again fall to the prices they were before--They claim there has been a 20 year commodity readjustment in prices....Same as with oil...

Prices on both rose and consumer demand did not crash....And with the short cattle supply in the US this year it may be impossible to compare prices pre border closure to now and to what they will be after the border opens...

Hypothetical--How high would the price of US cattle be if these Canadian cattle were not coming down? .. How high could they go before demand dropped off and leveled out the price? We never thought anyone would pay $4.00- even $3.00 per gallon for gas, but it happened.....

 

[frenchie]

frenchie- Many of the "experts" are speculating that cattle prices will never again fall to the prices they were before--They claim there has been a 20 year commodity readjustment in prices....Same as with oil........

:lol: I,ll believe whenI see it.

Prices on both rose and consumer demand did not crash....And with the short cattle supply in the US this year it may be impossible to compare prices pre border closure to now and to what they will be after the border opens...

Well one thing is for sure the Market never crashed with record numbers of cAnadian cattle coming across.

Hypothetical--How high would the price of US cattle be if these Canadian cattle were not coming down? .. How high could they go before demand dropped off and leveled out the price? We never thought anyone would pay $4.00- even $3.00 per gallon for gas, but it happened.....

The only thing you have to compare to is the period for which Canadian cattle stayed home A $4.50cwt impact on prices..As to your shortage of cattle..the question is how many are starting to retain heifers to rebuild the U.S cow herd.

 

[Oldtimer]

Frenchie- the lower prices being offered in Canada now may account for much of the import trade.....

According to the figures I have been watching and the Canadians posting on Agri-ville fat steers in Canada are now selling for $175-$225 per head less in Canada then in the US- a spread that was much more a year or two ago when there was as much as $500-600+ differences...

This starts to make it profitable for the multinational packers to import these Canadian cattle and beef, relabel it with the USDA stamp, and pass it off as a US product....

Luckily its at a time when we have a short enough supply and large enough demand that the prices for both countries haven't fallen more...I still would like to know what the price of US cattle and beef would be if this cheap import beef wasn't coming in?

 

[frenchie]

Frenchie- the lower prices being offered in Canada now may account for much of the import trade...?

..Not really

According to the figures I have been watching and the Canadians posting on Agri-ville fat steers in Canada are now selling for $175-$225 per head less ...?

..( Better get better info OT..Are you sure of those figures?.)....

This starts to make it profitable for the multinational packers to import these Canadian cattle and beef, relabel it with the USDA stamp, and pass it off as a US product......?

...Are you sure of your figures?

Luckily its at a time when we have a short enough supply and large enough demand that the prices for both countries haven't fallen more..?

one of reasons for your short supply is people are starting to retain heifers again

.I still would like to know what the price of US cattle and beef would be if this cheap import beef wasn't coming in?

You will never know Oldtimer ,neither will I..however keep in mind there has always been imported beef into the U.S...from various countries.


Cattle exports up from pre-BSE era
this document web posted: Wednesday December 14, 2005 20051215p4

By Barbara Duckworth
Calgary bureau

Exports of live feeder cattle to the United States since the border opened last summer are nearly double the average of pre-BSE days.

Cattle younger than 30 months old destined for U.S. feedlots or slaughterhouses are moving at a steady rate, said Canfax analyst Anne Dunford, at the Alberta Beef Producers annual meeting Dec. 5 in Calgary.

Average feeder exports are at 15,000 a week compared to 4,500 a week from 1998-02.

Fed steers and heifers are averaging 9,700 per week, consistent with the five-year average.

The boost in Canadian exports comes at a time when the U.S. herd is in expansion mode. More heifers are being retained on the farm rather than going on feed, one of the early indicators of growth.

"This is the first year we have seen an increase in numbers in their beef cow inventory," Dunford said.

In addition, Canadian slaughter numbers are higher than average.

At the end of 2003, weekly capacity was about 73,000. By the fall of 2004 it was up to 79,575.

In the spring of 2005, about 88,775 were killed per week and to date about 93,200 head per week were processed.

Weekly inspected slaughter in Canada should hit 4.2 million by the end of 2005.

"When the dust settles out for 2005, it looks like we are going to get total slaughter up three percent larger than last year," Dunford said.

As packers expand capacity, there is a difference between utilization rates and what could be potentially processed.

Packers have the space to do more but are averaging around 88 percent utilization from last fall to the summer.

When workers at Lakeside Packers at Brooks, Alta., went on strike this fall, the plant worked at 70 percent capacity. Some cattle have been removed due to the border opening and fat animals being exported.

Increased slaughter has also occurred in the weekly cow kill, where recently 15,000 were handled. This is the largest amount processed since 1996.

Pre-BSE, total cow sales averaged about 800,000 per year.

The cow kill is up 29 percent in 2005, resulting in 625,000 cows being removed from the system. These cattle and the beef from cattle older than 30 months cannot be exported at this time so the meat remains in Canada.

Cow prices are still well below the U.S. benchmark, said Dunford. U.S. utility cow prices show a wide disconnect between Canada and the United States. The U.S. price is 55-57 cents per pound Cdn compared to about 30 cents in Canada.

Youthful cattle have fared better. The 850 pound steer price in Western Canada since April gained $300 per head on this weight range.

Fed steer prices are the highest they have been since May 2003.

However, last week the U.S. market jumped, but the stronger Canadian dollar was higher, resulting in Canada being dropped $14 below the U.S. price.
[/b]

 

[frenchie]

if we had record beef coming over from Canada. Seems the northern neighbors shouldn't have in to tough of a state. Canadian lack of Slaughterhouses isn't a U.S. problem..

The 1st little while was pretty rough not even boxed beef left Canada..At least not to the U.S...There were no open auction markets here or within 4-6 hrs from here. from May/03 till OCt/03..


.Packing will be an area of concern....when they figure out how much the packing industry has grown up here.



.

Canada wise their low prices weren't completely caused by the border closing. There were internal factors also contributing.

Beef11 That was the main reason

 

[Oldtimer]

frenchie- Below is part of the post posted today by Farmers_son...

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We are still receiving $180 less for a fat steer than would be received if that same steer was sold in the United States. While the wholesale price of beef remains equivalent or slightly higher in Canada than in the U.S.


The real optimism from the announcement about Japan is that once trade actually does resume with Japan the U.S. would be expected to relax their restrictions on importation of our live cattle, both UTM and OTM. Until then I would expect to see continued discounts of our live UTM cattle in the range of $175 to $225 per head and discounts on OTM cattle amounting to $400 per live cow.

------------------------

Is he wrong- Is he lying? Now are you saying we shouldn't believe a word posted by a Canadian? :lol: :lol:

 

[frenchie]

frenchie- Below is part of the post posted today by Farmers_son...

---------------------------------------
We are still receiving $180 less for a fat steer than would be received if that same steer was sold in the United States. While the wholesale price of beef remains equivalent or slightly higher in Canada than in the U.S.


The real optimism from the announcement about Japan is that once trade actually does resume with Japan the U.S. would be expected to relax their restrictions on importation of our live cattle, both UTM and OTM. Until then I would expect to see continued discounts of our live UTM cattle in the range of $175 to $225 per head and discounts on OTM cattle amounting to $400 per live cow.

------------------------

Is he wrong- Is he lying? Now are you saying we shouldn't believe a word posted by a Canadian? :lol: :lol:

Why don,t you ask him Oldtimer...