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<blockquote data-quote="Anonymous" data-source="post: 4555"><p>> I totally agree. When we used to</p><p>> market differently, we used a</p><p>> black Angus bull with positive</p><p>> carcass and growth traits. Didn't</p><p>> care aboyt any maternal, to us he</p><p>> was just a terminal cross While</p><p>> there are a lot more black Angus</p><p>> bulls then Reds to choose from, if</p><p>> you look hard enough you can find</p><p>> those outliere types of Red Angus</p><p>> that have the antagonistic traits</p><p>> for maternal, growth and carcass.</p><p>> It's just a lot harder with Reds.</p><p>> We have a few blacks but the vast</p><p>> majority are red, Red Angus, red</p><p>> Gelbvieh, and soon red Simmenthal.</p><p>> That's the breed that I'm having</p><p>> the hardest time finding good red</p><p>> animals in.</p><p></p><p>> dun Where do I begin? Lets start at the beginning, or somewhere close. The reason for the big deal on Black ,has to do with the CAB program ,a wonderful tool that the Angus Association came up with, but they only put in one stipulation for cattle to meet when they went into the program, and that was and is, that one parent be BLACK ANGUS the key word BLACK. What breeds can we cross an Angus with and not come out black, all the data on CAB that I have found, is that only 20% of all the cattle enrolled in the program meet the requirements, 80% don't . Still not the complete answer though untill you factor in the Land Grant Universities (LGUs) that pushed the Elephants ( you remember that other wonderful program that the American Angus came up with {how to put an elephant in the box} about the same time they started CAB.) Well the LGUs kept telling us that the little British breeds weren't what the industry needed,but big and black was. When the consumer finally told the PHDs that nobody wanted a 24oz "T"bone the LGUs figured they had it half right, black . A progam in Michigan was started and eventhough a Red Angus breeder had all the data to show that his cattle met all the requirements but one, black, he was not allowed in the program. As one of the orginal resource persons told me and several other breeders and I quote "If you ask a consumer in Detroit what kind of beef is best the answer is Black Angus the key word is black, you have been outmaneuvered." Why because black angus was there first. It just name recogintion just like all tape is Scotch tape, wether it is or not. Becareful of the Angus bulls that you select out of the stud books, keep a careful eye on the frame score as a lot of these bull are only frame 5 and sometimes smaller, to help the big frame breeders scale down so you can meet some markets. One more point, and that is when you cross Angus with any british breed you will have the type of cattle that will meet CAB, Certified Hereford , or any of the many certified programs out there.</p><p></p><p> <a href="mailto:bancroft@cattle-today.com">bancroft@cattle-today.com</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Anonymous, post: 4555"] > I totally agree. When we used to > market differently, we used a > black Angus bull with positive > carcass and growth traits. Didn't > care aboyt any maternal, to us he > was just a terminal cross While > there are a lot more black Angus > bulls then Reds to choose from, if > you look hard enough you can find > those outliere types of Red Angus > that have the antagonistic traits > for maternal, growth and carcass. > It's just a lot harder with Reds. > We have a few blacks but the vast > majority are red, Red Angus, red > Gelbvieh, and soon red Simmenthal. > That's the breed that I'm having > the hardest time finding good red > animals in. > dun Where do I begin? Lets start at the beginning, or somewhere close. The reason for the big deal on Black ,has to do with the CAB program ,a wonderful tool that the Angus Association came up with, but they only put in one stipulation for cattle to meet when they went into the program, and that was and is, that one parent be BLACK ANGUS the key word BLACK. What breeds can we cross an Angus with and not come out black, all the data on CAB that I have found, is that only 20% of all the cattle enrolled in the program meet the requirements, 80% don't . Still not the complete answer though untill you factor in the Land Grant Universities (LGUs) that pushed the Elephants ( you remember that other wonderful program that the American Angus came up with {how to put an elephant in the box} about the same time they started CAB.) Well the LGUs kept telling us that the little British breeds weren't what the industry needed,but big and black was. When the consumer finally told the PHDs that nobody wanted a 24oz "T"bone the LGUs figured they had it half right, black . A progam in Michigan was started and eventhough a Red Angus breeder had all the data to show that his cattle met all the requirements but one, black, he was not allowed in the program. As one of the orginal resource persons told me and several other breeders and I quote "If you ask a consumer in Detroit what kind of beef is best the answer is Black Angus the key word is black, you have been outmaneuvered." Why because black angus was there first. It just name recogintion just like all tape is Scotch tape, wether it is or not. Becareful of the Angus bulls that you select out of the stud books, keep a careful eye on the frame score as a lot of these bull are only frame 5 and sometimes smaller, to help the big frame breeders scale down so you can meet some markets. One more point, and that is when you cross Angus with any british breed you will have the type of cattle that will meet CAB, Certified Hereford , or any of the many certified programs out there. [email=bancroft@cattle-today.com]bancroft@cattle-today.com[/email] [/QUOTE]
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