Who do you trust? Man who owns 1000 head or vet?

[redangus]

I have a friend who manages a ranch with over 500 head of registered animals. He is much more knowledgeable than my area vet; who might be milking a cat after he helps me.

I trust the man with the "cattle experience." I know that all vets are not equal, but it's hard for them to be great at dogs, cats, horses, goats, sheep, and cows....etc. If he's a phone call away, I'm calling the cattleman.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

for cattle experiance alone its hard to beat a ol hand.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Luckily I have a very good vet that knows his stuff. He is also a cattleman himself. He will help me at all hours, has sterile facilities, and all the equipment to do anything.

 

[S.R.R.]

The # of cattle means nothing. Most of the time the # of years a person has been raising cattle is what counts. These days an experienced cattle person who has been there, done that, seen that, is better then alot of Vets. I should add that the Vet I deal with is the first person I would call if I needed help with a dog or cat. Just not much good for large animals.

 

[Hasbeen]

I believe in using every resourse available. I have an older fellow who has been in the business probably 50 years who I consider a mentor. He has given me very good advise on quite a number of things and even helped me pick out my starters. However, I've learned quite a bit here on this board that he didn't know about. We never stop learning and new things are discovered almost every day. A vet should be up on the latest when it comes to health issues. Newer medicines, newer techniques and studies. I guess what I'm trying to say is get advise from everywhere you can and then it's up to you to sort it out.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

The # of cattle means nothing. Most of the time the # of years a person has been raising cattle is what counts. These days an experienced cattle person who has been there, done that, seen that, is better then alot of Vets. I should add that the Vet I deal with is the first person I would call if I needed help with a dog or cat. Just not much good for large animals.

Some good thoughts...

There's a saying: "20 years experience, compounded yearly" (or) "One year of experience twenty times".

Some Vets are definitely not up on things...
Some Ranchers are not up on things...

Some ranchers with hundreds of cattle will refrain spending $10 a year on an animal because "$10. x Hundreds = Mucho Dinero!"

We all need to do our homework, sift out the questionable advice and go with the "most expert" that benefits our animals...and it often "costs no more to go first class--in the long run"...

 

[backhoeboogie]

This thread is getting more confusing. Is this a generalization. There are things I do myself that I could hire a vet to do. There are things I assist others doing, that could be done by a vet. There are some things that I wouldn't allow anyone to do, without the correct facilities. I know some pretty big operations who have some really nice facilities, but they do not have the monitoring or test equipment and there are medications you can only get with a license. Are these cattlemen obtaining medications illegally? If so, I wouldn't be on here telling the entire internet populus about it. They are not supposed to have many of those medications without a license. You can get those folks in serious trouble if they are administering medications illegally.

There are also innoculations that have to be registered (e.g. Brucelosis). These are supposed to be administered by folks with a license who maintain the records.

Giving an cow a shot of 6-way or 7-way is another story, most all ranchers are "do it yourself" when it comes to that. Castration, dehorning, putting an animal to sleep and such can be done by any of us. It is not much different than clipping our nails or taking aspirin to get rid of a headache. Most all of us have squeeze chutes or head gates.

I remember when Daddy used to go to the feed store and buy rabies vaccinations. Those days are gone because anyone with a dog that bit someone claimed it had been vaccinated. After that happened a few times without proof, that option was lost.

There are a lot of procedures that 50 year experienced cattlemen would not attempt without commensurate facilities.

 

[Howdyjabo]

I had a local "large animal vet" come after me for cutting my neighbors calves(old retired neighbor short on funds- and no I didn't charge him)

Funny thing is he found out when I told the old guy to get a vet in for something else

He said that I couldn't do it legally and that i was ripping off his business. Tried to get me into alot of legal hassels. Till every neighbor I had called him up and told him they weren't going to do business with him if he kept it up. He backed off.

BTW-- wouldn't let that greenhorn cut any calves for me --let alone pay for it.

Real life Experience has its place and so does education. The lines are where it gets sticky.

 

[Bez!]

I have a friend who manages a ranch with over 500 head of registered animals. He is much more knowledgeable than my area vet; who might be milking a cat after he helps me.

I trust the man with the "cattle experience." I know that all vets are not equal, but it's hard for them to be great at dogs, cats, horses, goats, sheep, and cows....etc. If he's a phone call away, I'm calling the cattleman.

If your child needs a toncilectomy - you going to call a doctor, or the lady who has had 12 kids and raised them all to legal age?


Bez!

 

[Bez!]

I had a local "large animal vet" come after me for cutting my neighbors calves(old retired neighbor short on funds- and no I didn't charge him)

Funny thing is he found out when I told the old guy to get a vet in for something else

He said that I couldn't do it legally and that i was ripping off his business. Tried to get me into alot of legal hassels. Till every neighbor I had called him up and told him they weren't going to do business with him if he kept it up. He backed off.

BTW-- wouldn't let that greenhorn cut any calves for me --let alone pay for it.

Real life Experience has its place and so does education. The lines are where it gets sticky.

You have broken no laws - you and he know it - he would have been off the property on my toe.

My counter suit would have broken him.

Bez!

 

[Rancher6]

Exacty when do you cross the line of practicing without a license?? I always thought as long as it is your own cow and of course it is humane. My dad is a retired vet and I grew up in his clinic and on our ranch. I can do alot of things like a C-section and suture a cut up horse and so forth. Any time I have done it it has been one of my horses or cows (and I have never had one die or become worse from it). Don't get me wrong I have never done anything on someone elses animals in his clinic. I was taught how to do it right and to take care of our animals when he was tied up with someone elses. I would have been digging his boot out of my butt if I stood there and watched one of our cows die trying to have a calf while waiting three to four hours for him to get loose to get there. I won't even palpate anyone elses cows (I don't won't my neighbors to know that I can do it mostly). I still get him come out and Bangs vaccinate my heifers because the paperwork has to have his signature to make it all good. Around here you cannot get a vet on the weekends. I can take care of most of my problems, but my neighbors depend on the older ranchers for advise. I just try to play dumb because legally I cannot help them at all..

 

[Mahoney Pursley Ranch]

I'd place money on what the friends I have met from this board would tell me about cattle before a vet .

 

[Bez!]

Exacty when do you cross the line of practicing without a license?? I always thought as long as it is your own cow and of course it is humane. My dad is a retired vet and I grew up in his clinic and on our ranch. I can do alot of things like a C-section and suture a cut up horse and so forth. Any time I have done it it has been one of my horses or cows (and I have never had one die or become worse from it). Don't get me wrong I have never done anything on someone elses animals in his clinic. I was taught how to do it right and to take care of our animals when he was tied up with someone elses. I would have been digging his boot out of my butt if I stood there and watched one of our cows die trying to have a calf while waiting three to four hours for him to get loose to get there. I won't even palpate anyone elses cows (I don't won't my neighbors to know that I can do it mostly). I still get him come out and Bangs vaccinate my heifers because the paperwork has to have his signature to make it all good. Around here you cannot get a vet on the weekends. I can take care of most of my problems, but my neighbors depend on the older ranchers for advise. I just try to play dumb because legally I cannot help them at all..

Show me where it says I need a license to do most of what I am about to mention please. Then again perhaps it is that way where you come from.

Most - not all - most of what you wrote is legal beagle baffle gab crap my friend.

You want to help nut calves go to it.

You want to go and run your arm up another man's cows - go to it - you break no laws.

You wanna go and sew up an animal - for your neighbour - go to it.

All you need is his permission - or perhaps you are living in a very 'sueing" society - or are afraid of your neighbour?

So far I have been on a lot of ranches and done a lot of work for friends and neighbours - as they have for me.

You perpetuate this and you are the person that loses out. Be that as it may what do I know - I am just the guy down the road that can help pull an animal if you run into trouble and the vet can't get there.

You'll get mad at me and snap back at me - but I figure you are off the mark so far that you need to re-think some of your "let the neighbours be and play dumb" routine.

Unless they like you less than you appear to like them.

Bez!

 

[Rancher6]

Bez, you took my post wrong and no I am not going to snap back at you.. In the first sentence I was asking how far can you go before you get yourself in hot water. I don't know if it is written anywhere or when does the vet that they could not get out find out what you did and turn you in for practicing without a license. I would not worry to much about pulling a calf. I am saying major stuff like C-section and so on. It is a personal choice of mine not to palpate others cattle because If I miss a 30 day bred cow and call her open and they lutalyse her and she aborts, I look like a jackass and could loose a friend over it.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Some of us my be violently agreeing !!! :lol: :lol:

This year for the first time ever, I have had a few experiences such as a bull getting his vital part stepped on. I guess I have just been lucky previously. I know others who have been through it, but I never had. There are other things that I can fix and I will do my best to help an animal recover from an injury. Heck if someone's cows are out I'll help round them up too. But some things require a professional.

I have a very good vet and I guess I am very fortunate. He has good advice, free of charge and he is reasonable if I need him. He tried to save one of my calves last year and lost it, felt terrible and didn't want to charge. I paid the bill and told him "next time" (I should have also mentioned "previous times" too)

There are folks who will wear you out with requests for assistance. I don't mind helping at all but I feel some need to do a little more for themselves too. I enjoy helping work cattle with those who have good facilities and can teach me a thing or two. I have sewed up animals in the middle of the night and then hauled them to the vet the following morning, but those were situations where I didn't have any choice.

 

[dun]

One thing that seems to be lost sight of is that frequently the recommendation to call the vet is because the vet, if he/she/it are worth a hoot are on site and can actually look at the animal. A good vet can pick up on small things that aren;t obvious to most observers and doesn;t rely on the description or pictureto make a diagnoses.
A while back I got poopooed because I made the recommendation that before someone determines where they will be raising livestock they should check out the vet situation. All of the problems that people report about the inability to find a good vet seems to bare out that advice.

dun

 

[rkm]

A lot of vets come to the farm with a chip on their shoulder. Usually we don't call them until after we have tried to treat the cow ourselves. Also I have noticed now they just want consult, leave some medicine and the bill for $150 and get in their new truck and leave without getting any poo poo on their tennis shoes.

 

[Bama]

One problem with vets are that a lot of people call them to treat a cow thats not penned. They don't have any facilities to handle them either.You can't blame a vet for being a little on the onery side if he's called out to dehorn a cow in the middle of a pasture. If a vet shows up to a cow ready to be put in a chute and a warm cup of coffee, he will be a little more inclined to help.

 

[milkmaid]

Who do you trust? Man who owns 1000 head or vet?

Owning 1000 head doesn't mean he knows the head end of a cow from the rear end.

I'm inclined to trust the fellow with the four years of intense schooling first, until proven otherwise. Knowlegable until proven lacking. ;-)

 

[K-SHIRES]

We try to stay results oriented. Every week I learn something new from older cattlemen, working with the cattle, my set of old veterinary books, and now reading this website.
We use a vet for preg checks, or if a cow is in mortal danger and I've exhausted other resources. Do most everything else ourselves. The Vet has made money for us(Prevented losses), glad we have a good one.
Helping neighbors is good, as long as it's a two - way street. There's plenty of one - way streets in the city. we don't need 'em in the country.