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<blockquote data-quote="DOC HARRIS" data-source="post: 446616" data-attributes="member: 1683"><p>Not to kick this 'dead horse' anymore than it already has been kicked, I must say something about <strong><em>discussions</em></strong> concerning anything related to cattle, horses, feed stuffs (<strong>including</strong> the word "Gluten", whether it is Corn Gluten, Wheat Gluten, or any other Gluten ( a gray, sticky, nutritious mixture of proteins found in Wheat and OTHER grain), matings, EPD's, and on and on, with OPINIONS of different people clouding the understanding of the original and primary point of view. Whether the <strong><em>argument</em></strong> is about agriculture, politics, child raising, love affairs, - you name it - <strong>MISUNDERSTANDINGS</strong> and LACK of ALL the facts at hand are always at the center of the controversy! </p><p></p><p>Frankie - you said that "conventional wisdom has always said that crossbred <strong>cows</strong> are more fertile and more productive than straightbred <strong>cows</strong> of any breed". That is a correct statement. It is also true for <strong>bulls</strong>! Those two facts are forms of generalties, because NOTHING has been mentioned about the Phenotypical and Genetypical factors <em>relative</em> to the factors of other progeny listed in the database! Hello! Database?! "What the heck does that mean?" says Rancher/Farmer XYZ! Just because XYZ hasn't had the opportunity to really comprehend ALL of the facts and factors at hand doesn't mean that he/she is wrong, OR right! </p><p></p><p>You also said, Frankie, that "Properly chosen" (CYA comment) "straightbred cattle will give you a more consistent carcass." That depends on so many OTHER factors, they are too numerous to mention here. Properly chosen (and there are BOOKS available to define the meaning(s) of "Properly chosen") crossbreds CAN and/or MIGHT give you a more consistent carcass. AND . . . it MIGHT NOT! </p><p></p><p>These discussions, arguments, misunderstandings and even WARS and Divorces hinge and pivot on a word, or a letter added or left out of a statement. It's ridiculous to allow a platitude to become a truism or a bromide. This is one reason that cattle breeding is a tough business. It can't be based on he said/she said arguments or rationalities. </p><p></p><p>A friend of mine becomes almost apoplectic at the mere mention of EPD's, yet in his breeding protocols he uses the principles of EPD's to the maximum - - he just calls them something else. Do you think he will listen to logic? or reason? N-o-o-o-o-o! He is angry at the way EPD's were mis-handled 35 years ago by a few unscrupulous people - -so that means that UPD's are no @#!& good, the people who use them are no @#!& good, and the cattle are no @#!& good! SHEESH!</p><p></p><p>I agree that more and more people are trying to produce a quality product, but we all should be on the same page, and the printing ON that page should be written in the same language!</p><p></p><p>DON'T GET ME STARTED! :roll: </p><p></p><p>DOC HARRIS</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DOC HARRIS, post: 446616, member: 1683"] Not to kick this 'dead horse' anymore than it already has been kicked, I must say something about [b][i]discussions[/i][/b] concerning anything related to cattle, horses, feed stuffs ([b]including[/b] the word "Gluten", whether it is Corn Gluten, Wheat Gluten, or any other Gluten ( a gray, sticky, nutritious mixture of proteins found in Wheat and OTHER grain), matings, EPD's, and on and on, with OPINIONS of different people clouding the understanding of the original and primary point of view. Whether the [b][i]argument[/i][/b] is about agriculture, politics, child raising, love affairs, - you name it - [b]MISUNDERSTANDINGS[/b] and LACK of ALL the facts at hand are always at the center of the controversy! Frankie - you said that "conventional wisdom has always said that crossbred [b]cows[/b] are more fertile and more productive than straightbred [b]cows[/b] of any breed". That is a correct statement. It is also true for [b]bulls[/b]! Those two facts are forms of generalties, because NOTHING has been mentioned about the Phenotypical and Genetypical factors [i]relative[/i] to the factors of other progeny listed in the database! Hello! Database?! "What the heck does that mean?" says Rancher/Farmer XYZ! Just because XYZ hasn't had the opportunity to really comprehend ALL of the facts and factors at hand doesn't mean that he/she is wrong, OR right! You also said, Frankie, that "Properly chosen" (CYA comment) "straightbred cattle will give you a more consistent carcass." That depends on so many OTHER factors, they are too numerous to mention here. Properly chosen (and there are BOOKS available to define the meaning(s) of "Properly chosen") crossbreds CAN and/or MIGHT give you a more consistent carcass. AND . . . it MIGHT NOT! These discussions, arguments, misunderstandings and even WARS and Divorces hinge and pivot on a word, or a letter added or left out of a statement. It's ridiculous to allow a platitude to become a truism or a bromide. This is one reason that cattle breeding is a tough business. It can't be based on he said/she said arguments or rationalities. A friend of mine becomes almost apoplectic at the mere mention of EPD's, yet in his breeding protocols he uses the principles of EPD's to the maximum - - he just calls them something else. Do you think he will listen to logic? or reason? N-o-o-o-o-o! He is angry at the way EPD's were mis-handled 35 years ago by a few unscrupulous people - -so that means that UPD's are no @#!& good, the people who use them are no @#!& good, and the cattle are no @#!& good! SHEESH! I agree that more and more people are trying to produce a quality product, but we all should be on the same page, and the printing ON that page should be written in the same language! DON'T GET ME STARTED! :roll: DOC HARRIS [/QUOTE]
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