White bags

[El_Putzo]

I think this has been discussed here before, but it's been so long, I don't rememeber, and can't find it in the archives. To expand on the "Guess the F1" thread, I have question. Someone mentioned that the white on the cows bag threw them off on their guess. I've been told 2 different stories on the purity of Angus that have white on their udders. So whats the real scoop, is the white a pure angus trait, or is there something else in the woodpile? Please explain your answer.

Hope I didn't open too big of a can of worms, I just thought this might be an interesting topic and would like to hear some theories.

 

[la4angus]

There has been white on Angus cattle behind the navel since day 1. White behind the navel is registerable, white in front of the navel is not registerable. Same appliest to bulls as well as heifers or cows.

 

[watso059]

This is along the same lines...what would be in a black cow that has a white bag? Around here, I have heard that the black w/white bags are supposed to be the best milkers (don't know about that yet!). I was curious what would cause it...hereford of course would cause a lot of white...but could charlais crossed with a solid black cow (fullbred) cause a white bag? I have been thinking about this lately and figured I'd just ask it on this post, since it was about white on bags!

 

[cfpinz]

watso - A charlais cow crossed with pure angus bull would produce mostly smokey calves. I don't see where this would have any noticeable affect on white bags, but I could be wrong. I've always had good luck with white bag cattle, but a white bag doesn't necessarily mean a good milker, though. These are just my observations from cows I've owned, take it as just that, my opinion. Hope this helps.

cfpinz

 

[farmguy]

Two years ago I was at the National FFA convention and one of the livestock judges made a comment about increased white in Angus cattle about the time the push for increased size and weaning weights. He made it very clear he attributed the white to the numerous hostein angus cross cattle. He inferred that it would be very hard to resist some temptations when registering cattle. I suppose I am starting something here. But I do know years ago a neighbor had been milking holsteins, crossbred with angus and the went into the purebred angus bull business. When he sold out his cattle were stretchy and the registered stock did carry some white. But if this is true is it bad? The angus breed did all right since then, maybe it benefitted from a boost. With the dominant black color and the number of holstein angus crosses it would be a unique opportunity. A common practice around here was for years to go into the beef business by crossing your holsteins with angus, keep the crossbreeds as beef cows the breed back again to angus and few could tell the difference in the calves.

 

[UG]

farmguy,

I also suspect that there was quite a bit of outside blood introduced into Angus (and Hereford) during the frame race of the 70s and 80s, though many Angus and Hereford breeders continue to proudly proclaim that their breeds are some of the few only true purebreeds still in the US (I really get tired of hearing this).

Several years ago while attending the Texas State Fair, I think the biggest bulls throughout the barns were black Angus. I had a hard time believing that Angus producers were able to get them that big in such a relatively short amount of time, especially when a person considers how small most of the Angus and Herefords were in the 60's.


While walking through the cattle barns at NAILE several years ago with a long-time purebred producer & college prof we noticed a "Hereford" bull with remarkably similar color markings and breed characteristics of the traditional Simmentals. I was thinking to myself that that bull had to have some Simmy in him, but before I could even say it the other guy beat me to the punch, which solidfied in my mind that I wasn't just imagining it. Hmmm...how could this happen with a closed herd book?

 

[SEC]

White has always been controversial, but if the truth were known like La4Angus commented it has been there since day one.

In the 1800's in England there was a period of 60 years which the show cattle were thought to be better if they had white on them. So with 60 years of selection behind it, there is little wonder why it still shows up. Some bloodlines are worse than others. For the most part if you take a Holstein animal and breed it Angus for years it takes a while to get the meat back on the bones.

There was rumours that Schearbrook Shoshone had a mother with a little Holstein blood in her. That would agree with the amount of white that the bull might throw, maybe it's chance.

Bulls like Fortune 2000, Really Windy, Head of the Class and any Traveler bull is certainly capable of leaving lots of white.

Bando 5175, 9074, Fame, 410H and Connealy Kincaid are also capable of this.
I had a BR Midland calf that was unregisterable.

White is something that I don't always look for, but I will buy a good animal despite the white. Just need to know that you have a bull that can take the white off.

 

[JHH]

A local farmer here had a bull calf two weeks ago that had full white stripe down his back. ( Traveler)

His are full blooded angus. He always buys good bulls and all the neighbors have angus bulls. He of course blamed me
Says that I brought my hereford over one night.



JHH

 

[Brandonm2]

Harlon Ritchie has a slide of a champion Angus around the turn of the century with a big white spot on his chest (back when that was still registerable) as proof that the mystery white spot phenomena is not a NEW condition in Angus cattle. Obviously IF outside bloodlines (like Holstein) were used in the 70s that would increase the likelihood of spots; but the spots were nothing new or there would have been no need to pass a rule about white forward or to the rear of the navel.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Harlon Ritchie has a slide of a champion Angus around the turn of the century with a big white spot on his chest (back when that was still registerable) as proof that the mystery white spot phenomena is not a NEW condition in Angus cattle. Obviously IF outside bloodlines (like Holstein) were used in the 70s that would increase the likelihood of spots; but the spots were nothing new or there would have been no need to pass a rule about white forward or to the rear of the navel.

I totally agree. White is NORMAL for Angus, but the possibility of Hostein in the bloodlines would increase the amount & frequency of white.