Whats your defination of "maternial"?

[Amo]

Ive been helping a friend try to pick out his first bull purchase. He is wanting to retain heifers & is emphasizing maternial. Which for his cross breeding etc. isn't an issue.

How ever this has gotten me to thinking, what is the defination of maternial? To me its breed back & being able to wean off an acceptable calf. Of course breed back can lead into fleshing ability. Yet fleshing ability doesn't exactly mean fertility! Acceptable weaning deals with milk & fleshing ability. Then you have the whole frame score debate & throw in weaning 50% of body weight!

My friend sells at weaning right off the cow, so that plays into his maternial idea too. Myself I like to try and balance all traits. Maybe go more toward the preformance side of things as long as they breed back. You have to live within your enviroment. I think milk takes more energy than weaning or yearling.

Guess long story short other than breeding back, not taking a huge amount of supplemental feed to keep good BCS, acceptable weaning, & being a good mother is there much more to maternial? :?

 

[Williamsv]

I am not familiar with the definition of this word. I would like to know the meaning of it also.

 

[Amo]

Well I could of miss spelled it, it looks like. maternal.

 

[Williamsv]

Wasn't trying to correct your spelling. I was just interested in the word. Maternal means having to do with a mother or characteristics of a mother. Being a good mother is important with cows. Some are not and do not raise a good calf. You are on the right track in your last paragraph. Hope this will clarify the meaning some.

 

[Nesikep]

I think you about covered it, except that I'd add she needs to be built to have calves without a problem.

 

[Amo]

Not a problem.

Guess to add some info, we both are looking at Hereford on Angus. We both believe in cow efficiency. His parents have some really framy cows, that don't wean much. Plus he is wanting replacements. So he is looking at moderate weaning & yearling numbers. Banking on heterosis to compensate. Lots of milk with a 5 frame. I understand his logic.

Guess I prefer less milk & not a supper firm believer in the frame size debate. I agree, just believe there are outliers. Angus has had the curve bender mentality. I feel Hereford hasn't followed suit. So when I use M.A.R.C. across breed epd chart, the top 5% of Hereford is kinda middle of the road of what I look for in Angus. Guess i haven't had many issues. Only been using Hereford for about 3 years though. For instance he is looking at a bull with weaning yearling of 44 & 60 with milk of 31. Where I'm looking at 67 & 107, with milk of 25. Hereford epds.

Just our discussions got me to thinking if there is more to certain aspects of maternal than what I had thought. Feedlot genetics don't probably make the best mama's, yet you have to raise what someone (hopefully several) will want to buy. So I tend to go a little towards that perspective of genetics, provided they rebreed. Him leaning more the other direction & both of us bull shopping.....just thought I'd recalculate my GPS/compass of genetics.

 

[Amo]

One more thing, he has 24 cows & is wanting good breed back & tight calving interval. Could care less about repeat buyers. Where I have 150. Breed back & tight calving is important to me too. Yet I'm wanting to create something someone will want to buy again.

We both have same perspective, just emphasize certain things different. Guess if they breed back on time, that meets my criteria.

Thanks for the "recaliberation".

 

[Supa Dexta]

I also want them to not be the herd milk bar. I want her feeding her own calf and keeping others away - gently though- so that I have accurate results with the other calves and cows performance.

 

[ANAZAZI]

Maternal cows the way I see them: Taking care of the calf, cleaning, licking and grooming it.
Knowing at all time where it is, defend it against predators, bringing it with her when I move the herd.
Thereby teaching it how to behave among cattle and among people.
Milking adequately to keep the calf strong, glossy and growing.
Breeding back.
Breeding back again.
And again,
and yet again.
Year in and year out doing her job without the help of supplements when there is any forage.
Not needing help to calve, to accept her calf or to raise it.
Did i mention breeding back? That is also an important maternal trait.

 

[M5farm]

Maternal cows the way I see them: Taking care of the calf, cleaning, licking and grooming it.
Knowing at all time where it is, defend it against predators, bringing it with her when I move the herd.
Thereby teaching it how to behave among cattle and among people.
Milking adequately to keep the calf strong, glossy and growing.
Breeding back.
Breeding back again.
And again,
and yet again.
Year in and year out doing her job without the help of supplements when there is any forage.
Not needing help to calve, to accept her calf or to raise it.
Did i mention breeding back? That is also an important maternal trait.

Sounds about right to me.

 

[tjkangus]

To me getting a "maternal " bull would be getting one that is for specifcly breeding for replacements, with the mothering traits not so much weight gaining abiltiy. But usually the maternal side is the "fatter" one that you cross with a fast growing leaner sire bull to make a good terminal lines.
I hope that made sense and I don't look to dumb

 

[gizmom]

I agree with Anzazi, the Angus Association has a formula to help you identify maternal cows.

1. To qualify initially, a cow must have produced at least three calves with an average weaning ratio of 105 and these calves must have been evaluated with at least nine other herd mates.

2. Beginning with her first calf, all calves must have been recorded in AHIR. No irregular weanings or calves by commercial sires are used in this analysis.

3. A weaning weight must have been processed on a calf born after June 30

4. A cow must have had her first calf at an age equal to or less than the average age of the herd at first calving, plus 30 days.

5. To qualify for subsequent listings in the report, she must maintain a regular calving interval, which is determined as follows:

30 + 365 = Maximum Calving Interval
Number of Calving Intervals

We have had three cows make Pathfinder, I think the major thing is to measure the production of your cow herd. Take birth, weaning and yearling weights find the cows within your herd that are keeping their condition, breeding back and weaning heavy calves. The really good maternal cows are the ones accomplishing this task.

Gizmom

 

[Amo]

Ya, Hereford has Dams of Destinction. No clue as to what the other breeds have.

I agree, preditor protection is a good thing. I could maybe use more of that. Have seen coyotes run right through the cows & they just look. I got a different cow dog (hanging tree), and the cows don't like here when she tries to work. So I guess the verdict is still out on that!