What to look for when buying a terminal bull

[Cress27]

What the best breed? And what kind of epds should I take in notice when looking for a bull for terminal calf. What kinda cows would y'all recommend breeding to the terminal bull of your choice?

 

[ccr]

These are good questions and should be an interesting topic. At one time we had Simmental (fleck) cows and used angus bulls. The calves grew good, but many were not black and some were rat tail. At that time black was selling highest around here.

We are doing red angus now and this years calves will be from a hereford bull. Not real savvy on epd's, but high weaning and yearling weight would be good.

As far as the best breed would probably be what sells best where you plan on selling. There will be folks with good info and with more experience than me that will chime in. Good luck.

 

[Cress27]

These are good questions and should be an interesting topic. At one time we had Simmental (fleck) cows and used angus bulls. The calves grew good, but many were not black and some were rat tail. At that time black was selling highest around here.

We are doing red angus now and this years calves will be from a hereford bull. Not real savvy on epd's, but high weaning and yearling weight would be good.

As far as the best breed would probably be what sells best where you plan on selling. There will be folks with good info and with more experience than me that will chime in. Good luck.

I really like the simmental or SimAngus bulls. They are on the top of my list. Then Charolais would be a close 2nd. Black or bwf sells best here but I've seen a lot of Charolais cross calves top the market too. I'm interested in what people's opinions are on this topic. Thanks for the reply.

 

[ccr]

Simmental are to expensive here for it to pan out. I've also thought about and would like to try Charolais, but don't know what the market here is for them and always heard about calving problems with Charolais in the past.

 

[kenny thomas]

Simmental are to expensive here for it to pan out. I've also thought about and would like to try Charolais, but don't know what the market here is for them and always heard about calving problems with Charolais in the past.

Calving problems with the Charolais is in the past. Watch EPD's in whatever breed you choose. And the EPD'S are different for every breed.

 

[bulldog04]

I bred a Charolais to Angus and Limousin cows. Ended up with buckskin and smokey calves. The older ones out of the limousin have turned white so he his throwing his color. Not sure how they will do at market but them dudes come out full of life. I haven't pulled one except for one that was breeched. They aren't big when they come out but they aren't those 50 lb weak things you get out of some Angus bulls. My dad said to stay away from big headed Charolais bulls. I guess he's had a bad experience

 

[SBMF 2015]

If you sell feeder cattle black is tops. Angus cows and either a sim/angus or a good Hereford bull. Blk & baldie calves.
You want high growth, high carcass traits. Meat wagon type bulls.
I love Charolais, but the Angus world has convinced most of the consumers that black hair tastes better.
When I sell my feeders my smoke strs bring .10/.15 back from there black sibs of the same weight.

 

[ANAZAZI]

A terminal bull should do three things: add muscle, add growth, and do this without making calvings too difficult.
Some breeds, like Blonde d'Aquitaine, and Limousin, are the perfect terminal breeds.
Just make sure there is plenty of muscle in the actual bull (look at it) and that the numbers are okay.
While it is possible to use maternal breeds terminally, it may leave money on the table - both because of less gain, and because crossbred calves that are by a true terminal breed are simply sold at a higher price per weight.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Sad but true in some markets.

Seems to be more variation in Simi as it has become more popular here. Also seems to throw some chunky x bred calves when added to the mix.

I would look at black Limi for growth and muscle and long easy calving offspring.

 

[Dave]

Here the Char cross calves might sell a couple cents back but the increase in pounds will more than make up the difference. Neighbor B has about 40 bulls. Char, Black Angus, 1 red Angus. All well bred bulls. They go out to range with a box of crayon cows. More black cows than anything else but at least one or two of everything. Breeding is random. But those Char cross calves easily have 50 pounds on the straight black calves.
One thing here you don't want a red calf with a white face. Even a cross bred red calf with a white face. Those calves will sell at least a dime back for the cross breds and a straight bred Hereford will be 30 cents back. Run 30 calves into the ring that look like peas in a pod except color. They will leave the smokes and other Char crosses but the buyers will cut out any red white faced calf every time.

 

[Stocker Steve]

I thought rwf calves won the west ?

 

[ccr]

They will leave the smokes and other Char crosses but the buyers will cut out any red white faced calf every time.

Dave, why is that?

 

[Cress27]

They will leave the smokes and other Char crosses but the buyers will cut out any red white faced calf every time.

Dave, why is that?

I guess that red skin makes the meat taste different lol. I know a guy that has a feed lot and he says the straight bred Herefords just will not put the pounds on as fast as a black or Charolais. Me personally have always had a soft spot for Hereford cattle I have 3 Hereford cows that raise a beautiful calf every year.

 

[Stickney94]

Fascinating responses.

I'm seeing a very different definition of "terminal" than what I see on another message board.

If you are selling feeder calves the answer to this would/could be very different than if you were feeding out/selling on grid.

 

[Stocker Steve]

Fascinating responses.

I'm seeing a very different definition of "terminal" than what I see on another message board.

If you are selling feeder calves the answer to this would/could be very different than if you were feeding out/selling on grid.t

So what kind of bull does the terminal calf seller want?

 

[SBMF 2015]

A lot depends on what the order buyers have in their pocket on sale day. When I sorted at the barn. Some days we could sell blks and baldies together. Some days we couldn't. All depends on what the buyers want.
Herefords sell by them selves, some reds and recheck baldies together. Char smokes alone. All the rest usually sold alone.

 

[Stickney94]

So what kind of bull does the terminal calf seller want?

SS - what kind of calf does the buyer want? I guess that would be my answer. It's a good question nonetheless (know your market).

I don't want to sidetrack the thread -- I've just noticed the term "terminal" thrown around and it appears to mean different things in the industry. For my market I don't look at a sire as being only terminal. I expect my replacement females to bring terminal value to the table since that is my market (carcass quality).

 

[Muddy]

Charolais is a good terminal breed, unfortunately they're not very popular with feedlot buyers here. Black feeders will fetching more $ than Charolais X feeders at the same weight...even a 550lbs black steer brings more than a 650lbs CharX steer.

 

[ccr]

Charolais is a good terminal breed, unfortunately they're not very popular with feedlot buyers here. Black feeders will fetching more $ than Charolais X feeders at the same weight...even a 550lbs black steer brings more than a 650lbs CharX steer.

Muddy, is this because of the good marketing of the angus association or sure enough a better product with the black (gaining weight, marbling, carcass quality)? In the store you see the label certified angus beef and I reckon the consumer thinks, well this has to be better than a package that does not have the "certified" labeling.

I guess what I'm wondering is the black better or just good marketing?

edit: after thinking a little bit, guess this a naive question. I just can't get over how marketing a product rules color/breed of cattle bought and sold.

 

[Silver]

Fascinating responses.

I'm seeing a very different definition of "terminal" than what I see on another message board.

If you are selling feeder calves the answer to this would/could be very different than if you were feeding out/selling on grid.

I have zero use for the term. One producer's terminal breed is another one's maternal.