what perfomance test to use for replacement heifers

[George Monk]

I understand the 140 day performance test on bulls. Is there any way to do performance testing on replacement heifers without getting them to fat? We just worked our calves and I have 10 heifers that I will consider for replacements next fall. I would be willing to invest a little more in feed cost to get the top performers but I worry about hurting fertility.
thanks
George

 

[randiliana]

The performance test for heifers is how well they do on the cow, in YOUR pasture!! You want the heifers that can perform best under the conditions on your place, adding extra feed to get them to grow better is only a testament to your feeding ability. Having said that, you will have to feed them properly, you can't expect them to grow on nothing after all.

And, depending upon where you live, you may or may not need to add extra feed (grain) to keep them gaining after they are weaned. Up here where the winters are COLD and can be extremely nasty, we pretty much have to feed grain, there are times that if the animals are not fed well enough, that you can watch them LOSE weight. Circumstances are different in the southern states, where it doesn't usually get that cold or miserable.

 

[Frankie]

I hope someone will answer this question for you and for me. We don't really have a formula. But we tend to keep heifers from cows that raise a good calf every year, have good maternal instincts, and are easy to handle. We also tend to keep heifers with good performance, but not necessarily the heaviest, tallest, biggest, ones. When they cycle is important and we take EPDs into consideration.

 

[dun]

I hope someone will answer this question for you and for me. We don't really have a formula. But we tend to keep heifers from cows that raise a good calf every year, have good maternal instincts, and are easy to handle. We also tend to keep heifers with good performance, but not necessarily the heaviest, tallest, biggest, ones. When they cycle is important and we take EPDs into consideration.

Waht Frankie said except we don;t have EPDs.
A heifer that really blossoms during the 45 day weaning period when they're getting grain is a feedlot candidate. Those that just continue to grow well and settle into the process of being messed with in a small feeding area are retained. We also ultrasound at weaning to get an idea of the potential for REA and marbling.
That all said, we don;t grain after the weaning period unless we hit a sever weather situation during the winter. If they don;t make it on pasture and retain there growth pattern we would ship them. Haven't had one do that for many, many years.

dun

 

[alabama]

A very helpful tool is to weigh your calves. Record the birth date and the birth weight. Then weigh them when the average age is close to 205 days old. You will need to adjust the weights to the 205 days of age then make compressions. This will tell you which calves are growing and which cows are raising the best calves. You can also pick up mature weights on the cows if you weigh them at a consistent time.
This is not to say that the largest calves are always the ones to keep. This is just a tool to select the ones that work best on your place.

 

[S.R.R.]

The best performance test we have found is the heifers cow. Take your best cows heifers and look them over real good. Pick the number of replacement heifers you want out of that group. If needed you can then put some grain to them but keep in mind that these heifers should be able to live and raise you a good calf each year with no grain when they are adult cows. So try to keep the grain down to the bare minimum if at all.

 

[George Monk]

We don't have any EPD's on the maternal side and most are out of the same bull anyway except for 2 AI calves from first year heifers.
This year we will ultrasound. which I suppose is another post or at least a search.
thanks again
p.s. dun is breaking me of over feeding my cattle I am harder to wean than my calves ;-)

 

[Bama]

All of the above is good advice but I will add that I wont keep a heifer that I havn't done a pelvic check on. If they have a small pelvic area they will have a hard time calving. This can not be determined without stinking your arm in. Outside size is not really an indicator.

 

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

You might check out bovineengineering.com/ Gerald Frys website and read what he has to say about "linear measuement". ;-) :cboy:

 

[Bama]

Thanks springer thast a great link. I don't think it can replace the measurment obtained by getting your arm nasty but it does have a lot of good indications..

 

[Aero]

dun:
it surprises me that you ultrasound at weaning. do you think you make up the cost difference in the feedlot?

 

[dun]

dun:
it surprises me that you ultrasound at weaning. do you think you make up the cost difference in the feedlot?

We started year before last and those heifers have calved now. I think it will help us to identify which cows need help in what area and will better allow us to select the bulls used on them.
We've already got the fertility, calving ease, weaning weight and ability to perform in our environment under our (mis)managment. While our calves nearly alwasy fall into the middle choice range and yg 3 I'ld like to get closer to high choice and yg 2. That's what we're hoping the ultrasound will help with. We retain ownership on some calves and the better they do the more money we make. Pretty simple economics. One feedlot that buys most of our associations calves has a program that even if we don;t retain any ownership we can still get a percentage of the premiums.
It's all just one more method of trying to produce the best product we can and get paid for it.

dun

 

[Aero]

We started year before last and those heifers have calved now. I think it will help us to identify which cows need help in what area and will better allow us to select the bulls used on them.
We've already got the fertility, calving ease, weaning weight and ability to perform in our environment under our (mis)managment. While our calves nearly alwasy fall into the middle choice range and yg 3 I'ld like to get closer to high choice and yg 2. That's what we're hoping the ultrasound will help with. We retain ownership on some calves and the better they do the more money we make. Pretty simple economics. One feedlot that buys most of our associations calves has a program that even if we don;t retain any ownership we can still get a percentage of the premiums.
It's all just one more method of trying to produce the best product we can and get paid for it.

dun

do you keep breeding records that identify each animal and both of their parents? if the returned data is detailed enough, you should be able to see the result of each mating. if you could do that, you might be able to improve the whole herd instead of just trying to figure out which ones are better from what you already have.

i know you already know this and am not sure why i am telling you.

is the data you get back detailed enough to identify individual animals?

 

[dun]

do you keep breeding records that identify each animal and both of their parents? if the returned data is detailed enough, you should be able to see the result of each mating. if you could do that, you might be able to improve the whole herd instead of just trying to figure out which ones are better from what you already have.
is the data you get back detailed enough to identify individual animals?

We have breeding data on most of the cows/heifers for several generations. When we fall for a pretty face and buy something new we a least know there breeding history.
Since the carcass and cost data is detailed to each individual animal we know exactly which calf did what. And more importantly what mating did what.
Excwpt for a couple of BC Hobo calves we never had anything lower then choice 30 to 50 and REA of 13.2 to 14.7.
Other then one claf that is 1/4 Gelbvieh, these are all straightbred Red Angus or percentage Red Angus x Hereford.
May not be great but it's worked well for us.

dun

 

[Aero]

We have breeding data on most of the cows/heifers for several generations. When we fall for a pretty face and buy something new we a least know there breeding history.
Since the carcass and cost data is detailed to each individual animal we know exactly which calf did what. And more importantly what mating did what.
Excwpt for a couple of BC Hobo calves we never had anything lower then choice 30 to 50 and REA of 13.2 to 14.7.
Other then one claf that is 1/4 Gelbvieh, these are all straightbred Red Angus or percentage Red Angus x Hereford.
May not be great but it's worked well for us.

dun

so do you have planned matings that might optimize usage of certain animals? say one mating gave you high choice with YG 3 and another pair gave you YG 1.5 and Select; could you probably swap bulls and come up with a better average?

FYI - i am the last person that will ever tell you how to do anything; i am just asking if this is how you are doing it.


i wasnt aware that your herd is (almost) entirely British; that surprises me.

 

[dun]

so do you have planned matings that might optimize usage of certain animals? say one mating gave you high choice with YG 3 and another pair gave you YG 1.5 and Select; could you probably swap bulls and come up with a better average?

FYI - i am the last person that will ever tell you how to do anything; i am just asking if this is how you are doing it.


i wasnt aware that your herd is (almost) entirely British; that surprises me.

Unless a bull generates really bang up super good heifers if he produces select we just don;t use him anymore. We get premiums, when we do get them, on quality grade not yeield grade. If we targeted the yeild grade grid we'll probably use more Simmenthal or Gelbvieh and less british. The majority of the YG 3s came from one feedlot with one batch of calves. The owner apologized for it because he had held them an extra month because of the market at the time they should have had their heads cut off.
If you check your pm in a couple of minutes I'll have pics posted

dun

 

[Aero]

do you find that as the percentage of ownership retained increases, the chance of the feedlot manager holding them over increases?

 

[dun]

do you find that as the percentage of ownership retained increases, the chance of the feedlot manager holding them over increases?

Just the opposite. They generally want them out of there so they can fill the pens with cattle they can make moe profit on. All they get out of the retained ownership is pretty much feed and yardage.

dun

 

[Aero]

that's good. i hear a lot of people complaining about the feedlots just selling feed and wanting to keep them longer when the calves are consuming more than ever.

thanks.

 

[dun]

that's good. i hear a lot of people complaining about the feedlots just selling feed and wanting to keep them longer when the calves are consuming more than ever.

thanks.

I'm, assuming that's why they do it. But we're talking Cargill, Cactus Feeders, etc. not the smaller feedlots. Alhtough the heifers are at a smaller feedlot in IA.

dun