What do you think of this bull? Need Opinions - Update

[Gate Opener]

We're not very good at picking bulls. Did we do any good at all with this one? He is about 13 months in this picture. Not the best picture.(his back leg looks to be in a weird position) Please tell me what is wrong with him and what is right also. We need to learn. Whatever might be wrong do you think it will correct itself with age?

Yep, I'm hanging on.

 

[backhoeboogie]

I like his hip length.

When a man needs a bull, he usually decides what his herd needs before he goes looking. I have to walk around a bull several times and probably not all that good of a judge myself to tell the truth. But I'd have to see more than what is in that pic. What are you looking for and what do you intend to do with this bull?

 

[Gate Opener]

We have commercial cows and we sell the calves at the sale barn. Looking for something to give us good calves. Our cows aren't uniform enough to have him correct specific things.(Hope I answered that right)

 

[backhoeboogie]

My steers are sale barn steers too. Solid white and solid black steers do well in the local sale barns. Getting them there is a factor too. I don't want a bull throwing calves too big, or calves with block shoulders. Losing calves is losing nickels. Mortality ranks pretty high.

I also have to contend with dry heat environments in the summer. White seems to be good for heat.

I also have to build replacements. I want a bull that will improve what I already have. If I had trash, that wouldn't take much. If I have top quality, it takes a lot.

I like his length and I do indeed like the hip.

Good luck with him. I'll read what others have to say about him and may or may not agree.

That dude only has to satisfy you and your program. If he doesn't, ship him.

 

[Gate Opener]

Thanks for info. Here are a couple more pictures.

 

[Australian Cattleman]

Not sirey enough in the head,hindquarters not developed enough,looks a bit like a steer. You would need good quality cows to get a decent calf by this bull.

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

Whats right:

He appears to have decent length, and he seems to be standing ok.

Whats wrong:

Nowhere near enough depth. See that cow standing behind him in the first picture? You should be picking your bulls with that kind of rib in mind.

Too much slant from hooks to pins. Tail head is too far forward. This may cause reproduction problems and I suspect his walk isn't very good. If you have alot of pasture for him to travel, he won't do as well as a good walking bull.

Hindquarters are pinched and light.

Not enough masculinity, even for a young bull.

Neck doen't flow as nicely into the front shoulders as it could. He won't be hard calving, but he won't be a calving ease animal either.

Can't really tell from the picture, but testicle size seems to be small.

Rod

 

[Gate Opener]

A.S. I thought he looked too bully in the head, guess it is just all the wool.

DiamondS, I thought he would grow depth as he gets older. Now I see what you are talking about on the other things but I don't know what pinched means. Is that not wide enough?
His testicles look plenty big to me(means nothing ) but they don't hang down very far but again I don't know if that is just because he is young. He would be at our other place which is 84 acres.

So in picking a young bull should he look like a miniature of a grown bull? Am I going to have to pay lots of money to get a good one?We talked to a local breeder and he wanted $1800, can't do that.

My husband was reading your post and he said, "Saskatchewan :shock: !!!!, that guy must really like cows to be raising them up there!" :lol:

 

[Joey]

He looks like an average Char bull that hasn't seen a any grain,wait till he's 3, then post another picture and see what people think. He'll fill out for you and you'll have yourself a nice bull.

 

[edde_1]

He looks good to me, he just need some grain. But i would keep him small and thin, i dont like heavy and fat breeding bulls. Look at my charbull in my latest thread, his five years old but he is small because i want him him that way. The leg last longer than if he would weight 3000 pounds, now he weigth about 2000 pounds will probably gain a couple of hundred pounds during the winter. I know his genetics and had 100+ calfes after him that is outstanding, he can look nasty as long as he gets my cows pregnant.
And u know a thin male never gets lazy

 

[DiamondSCattleCo]

1) DiamondS, I thought he would grow depth as he gets older.

2) Now I see what you are talking about on the other things but I don't know what pinched means. Is that not wide enough?

3) His testicles look plenty big to me(means nothing ) but they don't hang down very far but again I don't know if that is just because he is young.

4) So in picking a young bull should he look like a miniature of a grown bull?

5) Am I going to have to pay lots of money to get a good one?We talked to a local breeder and he wanted $1800, can't do that.

1) Nope. He'll put on some body fat eventually, but the proportion of rib to leg isn't going to change much. What I use as a guide is to measure the leg length, then measure from topline to top of the leg joint. It must be 50/50 minimum for me to use a bull, and I prefer shorter animals so I look for 60/40 to 2/3 rib. With only 84 acres, your bull doesn't have to travel far. The bull in your picture is showing me more leg than rib.

2) He's pinched up at the back side of his belly. While you'll never find it flat here, it shouldn't pinch up that far.

3) I meant to mention the sack not hanging. Was it warm the day of the picture? If so, those nuts should be hanging lower, even for a yearling. Tight sacks in the heat = poor fertility.

4) Mostly. As a bull matures he certainly changes, but you should be able to see the start of a bull in a yearling. I look for a little more crest in my young bulls, and the phenotype I mention earlier. A young bull won't have his mature gait yet, but again he should be placing his feet nicely.

5) Nope, although $1800 is a pretty cheap bull around these parts. How many cows do you have? If you only have a few, consider AI. For 20 bucks a cow (semen) and another 20 bucks for the AI tech, you can breed your critters to some of the best bulls. While I can't see the back side of that cow in the first picture, what I can see looks good. Don't breed good cows to bad bulls.

As for Saskatchewan, I love winter.

Rod

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Whats right:

He appears to have decent length, and he seems to be standing ok.

Whats wrong:

Nowhere near enough depth. See that cow standing behind him in the first picture? You should be picking your bulls with that kind of rib in mind.

Too much slant from hooks to pins. Tail head is too far forward. This may cause reproduction problems and I suspect his walk isn't very good. If you have alot of pasture for him to travel, he won't do as well as a good walking bull.

Hindquarters are pinched and light.

Not enough masculinity, even for a young bull.

Neck doen't flow as nicely into the front shoulders as it could. He won't be hard calving, but he won't be a calving ease animal either.

Can't really tell from the picture, but testicle size seems to be small.

Rod

Gate Opener - When I read your post, I immediately copied the picture, grabbed a sheet of paper and itemized the points I wanted to comment about.

Before I answered the post, I decided to read some of the other posts first. THEN I came to Diamond S Cattle Company and his comments. I threw my comments in the trash, because Diamond S said almost EXACTLY the same things I had on my note pad, so there was no reason to duplicate it. He has it Absolutely correct! The cow standing behind him is a much better phenotype representative than the white bull. I would NOT use that bull - you will lose about three years of improvement in your replacements if you do, I don't care how bad your herd is now.

To make a resounding impact and genetic improvement in your cow herd by keeping replacements, you MUST use a bull that is a smashing, resounding improvement over the BEST cow in your herd. This bull is NOT the one! I am sure that, secretly, you already knew that!

DOC HARRIS

 

[bullpeddler]

This bull is okay but nothing special. The best thing about him is that he is not overly conditioned so he should be able to bred cows without falling apart.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Our cows aren't uniform enough to have him correct specific things.(Hope I answered that right)

G.O. - Look at the problem this way: From your statement above, if your cows are NOT uniform - then you need a CRACKING good bull to bring your Replacement Heifers to ONE-HALF UNIFORMITY! Then - the NEXT crop of Replacement Heifers you plan to produce, use ANOTHER CRACKING good bull and your 'Uniformity' becomes THREE-FOURTH'S of what you would desire as far as Uniformity and Consistency is concerned! . . .and so on! If you don't use a bull which can improve ANY trait or characteristic with which you might need improvement in your BREEDING herd and continue to strive to reach the desirable goals you have - you will NEVER see improvement!

Gate Opener - Here is some free-for-nothing advice: DON'T think that THIS bull is going to provide a world of quality for your herd! He will not. Use a MUCH BETTER bull.

DOC HARRIS

 

[cattleman537]

It is hard to judge a bull by only a couple of pictures. I feel that he is in the 13 month old picture somewhat muscular but in the next pictures, he is not nearly thick enough and his rib depth is shallow. I agree with the one fellow that says his tail head is too far forward. One thing to remember when buying a bull, if at all possible look at his mother, her milk and maternal epd's although a lot of influence is from the sire much of the influence is from the dam as well. A nice sire is not the only thing that influences the offspring.

 

[Gate Opener]

We bought the bull at the sale barn for $875. His weight was 1130#. We took him to the vet about a week later and he weighed 1235# Anyway, he was marked fertile+. So, does the tailhead being too far forward have something to do with delivery and not fertility?

Oh, it was cold that day. Yesterday it was warmer and he was where he should have been.

We don't keep any replacements. Thought about it just recently but decided it would cost too much. I would rather buy a bred cow or pair when we need more cows. All of our calves go to the sale barn. Now that being said, does it matter if the bull is not perfect in this situation? Will the calves bring enough to justify the cost of the nicer bull?

I am leary of having a bunch of money in any one animal. But I suppose I could get insurance.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

:shock: :roll: :roll: I am gratified to hear that you are not planning to keep replacements from this bull! If you are just looking for "Cow Fresheners", this one is no worse than most.

DOC HARRIS

 

[JHH]

If you are not keeping replacements and not selling bulls then he will do just fine for you. If you start wanting to keep some replacements then change bulls. This guy will breed your cows and not cost you much to keep and will bring back more at the sale barn when you are finished with him. JHH

 

[la4angus]

Doc Harris hit the nail on the head. :lol: :lol:

 

[rocket2222]

Even if all your calves go to the sale barn. I would still want a bull with more depth of rib and more muscle. He might add a few pounds of growth to the calves, which would earn you a few more dollers at the sale barn, then maybe next time you could afford a better bull.