What do you pay for your herd bull

[plbcattle]

how much do you pay for your herd bulls. How do you come to that conclusion as to what you pay. I am having trouble with all the people that have 20-40 cows and want a $1000 bull. the cows are worth $25,000-$40,000 at $1000 per animal and you are willing to pay $1000 for that kind of investment on a bull that you could pay $1000-$2500 more for something that is a lot more predictable, No birthweight surprises, more milk, heavier weaning and yearling weights(I know there are the exceptions but with high accuracies EPD's you can get some really predictable bulls to use)
This is just a question to see what makes you decide how much you will spend on a herd bull

 

[msscamp]

(I know there are the exceptions but with high accuracies EPD's you can get some really predictable bulls to use)

This statement leads me to believe that you are misunderstanding the use of EPD's. The 'E' in EPD's means estimated, therefore no guarantees. Also EPD's are a measure of how that particular bull performed against the breed average, not on a particular cow or a group of cows. As a final note, as I understand it, there is nothing 'predictable' about genetics, as there is another side to the genetic work-up. Just my thoughts.

 

[WORANCH]

(I know there are the exceptions but with high accuracies EPD's you can get some really predictable bulls to use)

This statement leads me to believe that you are misunderstanding the use of EPD's. The 'E' in EPD's means estimated, therefore no guarantees. Also EPD's are a measure of how that particular bull performed against the breed average, not on a particular cow or a group of cows. As a final note, as I understand it, there is nothing 'predictable' about genetics, as there is another side to the genetic work-up. Just my thoughts.

Expected Progeny Differences

 

[msscamp]

(I know there are the exceptions but with high accuracies EPD's you can get some really predictable bulls to use)

This statement leads me to believe that you are misunderstanding the use of EPD's. The 'E' in EPD's means estimated, therefore no guarantees. Also EPD's are a measure of how that particular bull performed against the breed average, not on a particular cow or a group of cows. As a final note, as I understand it, there is nothing 'predictable' about genetics, as there is another side to the genetic work-up. Just my thoughts.

Expected Progeny Differences

Thank you, I knew I was wrong when I posted that but could not for the life of me figure out what it was. Brain fart.

 

[cypressfarms]

Grandpa said pay three times what your best cow is worth for a bull without hesitating.

What one animal has such a large influence over your whole herd?

A local brangus breeder here told me that when people ask him where his $1,000 bulls are, he points them to his steers.

 

[msscamp]

Grandpa said pay three times what your best cow is worth for a bull without hesitating.

What one animal has such a large influence over your whole herd?

A local brangus breeder here told me that when people ask him where his $1,000 bulls are, he points them to his steers.

That sums it up in a nutshell!

 

[Brandonm2]

Bulls are a by-product of the elite donor heifer business and most commercial cattlemen have that figured out. You don't flush a cow three times hoping for 30-40 bulls, you want show heifers and donor cows. IF you could affordably sex semen to eliminate the bulls, most people would. I wouldn't be selling anybody any $1000 bulls in THIS market; BUT $1500 is a fair offer in almost anybody's herd and $2500 will buy me two year old bulls all over this country with very little haggling at all. I have gone to elite auctions and had my pick of bulls for $1550 WHEN their heifer flush mates were bringing as much as $12,500. Most people I know struggle to average anything over $3000 and most small purebreeders have NEVER sold many $2000 bulls. This may sound warped but (in a good herd) their best commercial cow is worth MORE than the bull.

 

[cypressfarms]

This may sound warped but (in a good herd) their best commercial cow is worth MORE than the bull.

Brandonm2, your right. In grandpa's day there wasn't showing like now. Now you have weird situations where registered bred heifers are bringing more than their 4 year old moma's with a calf and bred (3 in 1). Just makes me shake my head. Maybe I should qualify grandpa's statement to say:

Take 3 regular open cows, bring them to the auction barn. What they bring, you should feel comfortable paying for a bull.

 

[bigbull338]

that is a good question. i know of a hereford breeder that sales weaned bull cales for $1100.an a beefmaster breeder that sales his 2yr old bulls for $2000 to $4000ac as yearlings an 2 yr olds.scott

 

[Hill Creek Farm]

Well, I would say that I would pay, for a good bull that will make me really nice calves probably anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000. I don't like a cheap bull, because he will sire cheap calves. :cboy:

 

[LimiMan]

Went to a limousin sale in Missouri and Express bought a bull for $30,000. I knew right then and there I was at the wrong cattle sale for my wallet.

 

[BRG]

Years ago, they would always say a bull should bring what 6 fat steers are worth. Today I have seen several beef magazines say between 4 and 5 steers off the cow. So right now with steers bringing around $700. A bull should cost between $2800 and $3500. Now that is on average. Some will bring way more and some less. Up here, that is what the bulls will cost at most sales. My sale last spring averaged $2980 on 70 bulls, and the prices were not quite as good last fall as they are this fall. Not saying we will get that again, but I think we will be close.

As far as bulls being a by-product. I disagree 150%. We make our living off of selling bulls. Yes we flush cows hoping for heifers, but I also hope for bulls. If you don't get some bulls out of those donor cows you will never get the high dollor bull or get a top herd bull to use for yourself. So we breed and hope for bulls because we sell around 80 bulls and 20 heifers a year. You also said that $1550 is a fair market at most anyones herd. Well evidently mine is not most anyones herd, because we will be starting off at $1500 at our auction and won't go any cheaper. And the commercial cattleman I know and sell to realize that they get 30 calves a year from their 1 bull, and I think it would be an insult to them if we told them that their top herd bull is only worth what their old grama cow is worth. If I had to sell bulls for that price, I wouldn't be doing it. We have to make money too.

 

[kaneranch]

One of the bigger ranchers told me this summer that he bought a new ranch and bought 100 top quality bulls for $3000
a peice. Thanks Kaneranch

 

[Campground Cattle]

Well, I would say that I would pay, for a good bull that will make me really nice calves probably anywhere from $5,000 to $10,000. I don't like a cheap bull, because he will sire cheap calves. :cboy:

This is not a true satement price has little to do with quality and genetics it has to do with bragging at the feed store.

There are quality genetics and Herd bulls that will throw as good or better calf all over the country you just have to quit shopping in the pretty flyers they send you in the mail.

 

[Matt Schiel]

I have to agree with BRG. In most purebred herds the bulls should pay the bills and the heifers are the gravy. Several PB breeders have told me this thoughout the years and that is how they have kept in the business. We are working to make our bulls pay more of the bills by having them DNA tested for tenderness, solid colored, polled and being easy calving and growthy. Now we will always have good females and a few that are really good.

Matt

 

[Susie David]

So in the end, can a guy expect to buy a reasonable bull for $1,000-$2,000 just by looking over some EPDs and checking out the sire and dam and maybe some other offspring of the pair? I know a guy that buys older bulls and maintains that the genetics haven't changed, just the price. DMc

 

[ALACOWMAN]

any breeding age bull worth his salt right now will start at least $2500 up right now if your paying any less your probably saving the breeder a trip to the sale barn.with slaughter bulls bringing near a average of $1000 there self .

 

[preston39]

So in the end, can a guy expect to buy a reasonable bull for $1,000-$2,000 just by looking over some EPDs and checking out the sire and dam and maybe some other offspring of the pair? I know a guy that buys older bulls and maintains that the genetics haven't changed, just the price. DMc

===
Susie David,

I would be leary of that assessment.

Dramatic changes have been seen over the last few years because breeders are refining(with more knowledge and new technology) their input.
Currently the gene ID advancements seems to be the new concentration and will represent a damatic element of change.

A non-descript bull will bring $1,000+....just based on slaughter weight. A good gentics bull will start at $2,000+. I am speaking of Black Angus.

 

[TheBullLady]

I would expect to pay $2,500 to $3,000 for a good registered breeding age bull in this market.

 

[Brandonm2]

Here in the commercial world, I don't think there is a $10 a head difference between an overpriced $30,000 bull and most good $2500 bulls of the same breed (and often the same sire) selected just as carefully. The only reason a bull is worth that kind of money (you hope!) is to sell semen and so you don't have to buy comparable semen.

I can add and subtract too and if somebody has 200 reg. mamas they have 90 registerable bull calves to market a year. If they steer the bottom half that leaves them with 45. If they pull out the top 3 to show and promote every year, that leaves 42. For them to find homes for that many bulls they have to have customers with the buying power of 4000++ cows (assuming 25 cows per bull and an avg bull career of 4 years). Some people will spend enough on magazine ads and direct promotion that they CAN do that...some would KILL to be able to sell 42 bulls a year at ~$2500 per bull (that is who you want to do business with). Since the bull business is split between 20 different breeds and 10-40 players in each major breed in each (major) state somebody is going to struggle to market all of their bulls. Bull sellers and breed promoters like to tell commercial cattlemen that bulls should be worth $4000 plus; but unless the nation's registered cow herd shrinks tremendously there is cow capacity out there to supply 3 to 5 times as many bulls as we need. I am not advocating jewing anybody out of house and home, but if somebody quotes a ridiculous $3500+++ price per bull for 20-30 commercial cows my advice is to tell him to find some other sucker and drive on to the next farm on your list. You can find good (HONEST) seedstock suppliers who will be happy to sell bulls at a reasonable price and when you do give them repeat business and refer other people to him. The dude who won't deal...don't do business with and dawg him and his stock to other people in your circle. This business is too competitive to be giving away money to anybody.