Weaning protocol

[elkwc]

I decided to start a new thread. With the recent discussions concerning weaning protocols and the listing of several protocols on this site and elsewhere recently I have noticed some changes from many of the protocols we looked at and a few we tried 4-8 years ago. There was a few special sales that had protocols also. Everything we considered and tried had mineral and vitamin requirements. At least one of the sales even named the approved products. Our vets feel the mineral package is critical. Also at least two of the older protocols required stress tubs. We have used the Vita Ferm tubs for several years. I am a firm believer in them. I used to be the only one who used them at the feed store I use. They now have a large number using them. Since using them we have seen a reduction in sickness and overall health has improved. Our cows are on Vita Ferm. Our calves go on them 2-3 weeks before weaning. Surprised that of the recent protocols I’ve seen recently only one mentioned a mineral program and none mentioned stress tubs. I know our buyers like the fact they have been on a complete mineral program and stress tubs.
Does anyone else consider a mineral program and stress tubs part of their weaning protocol or is it just me and our vets? I feel they are just as critical as some of those vaccines they are pushing. The effectiveness of any vaccine is limited if the calves aren’t healthy. I know of one sale that has their protocol but don’t announce the mineral program even if listed on the paper gave to the check in person.

 

[TCRanch]

What is different about Vita Ferm tubs vs. "regular" protein tubs? My calves always have access to loose mineral (currently with garlic, altosid & CTC) and a 30% tub when they're weaned.

 

[Dave]

We wean by hauling the calves many miles away from the cows. We vaccinate them on day one. That includes a shot of Multimin. They get pretty quiet by day 3. My corral has 3 big pens. At weaning the calves have access to all 3 pens. There is nothing in the pens in the summer so I seed them with annual rye grass. That way when the calves are marching around they don't raise any dust. I also have 5 or 6 water troughs in the corral. Every time they turn around there is a water trough. I want lots of water available. Grass hay is available 24/7. There is Rain and Wind minerals by one of the sheds. And for the first 5 or 6 days I feed Purina Stress Care at the rate of about 2 or 3 pounds per head per day. After that they get kicked out on to irrigated hay field regrowth which is about 15 inches of green grass. The first field they go to has access back into the corral. There is still some grass hay left which they seem to come back to until it is cleaned up.

 

[elkwc]

What is different about Vita Ferm tubs vs. "regular" protein tubs? My calves always have access to loose mineral (currently with garlic, altosid & CTC) and a 30% tub when they're weaned.

These are stress tubs and not protein tubs. I have only tried the Purina stress tubs and the Vita Ferm. Mine didn’t consume the Purina tubs well. They do the it’s Ferm even with loose mineral out. We have used them several years. We have had positive results and a firm believer in them. I would have to go back to the label to list the ingredients.

 

[bird dog]

elk, are you fence line weaning or total removal?

I fence line wean but don't do anything special. The calves have had the same access to the minerals that the cows do. I provide the best hay I have, fresh water and get them started on some grain and thats it.

After three days I open another field and the cows usually leave for it. The calves are worked and moved to where they will be backgrounded for 40 to 60 days. I rarely have a sickness after weaning.

 

[Brute 23]

When I wean I haul the calves completely off to another property. Some will bawl for 24 hours or so but most don't if they can't see other cattle around them. These are all 6 mo+, probably more like 7-9.

Most have been banded and recieved a round of shots at 3-5 mo.

They go in to pens with a water trough, a bunk that has salt and mineral, and hay.

They will get some kind of feed to get started. They get worked and get cov 8, virashield, wormer, mm90 and probably some thing for flies.

In 48 hrs they are turned out in to a trap. With in a couple more days they get turned out to a pasture, still connected to the pens.

How much tubs, hay, feed etc just depends on the conditions. They will get a little some thing weekly at a minimum to keep them coming and use to people.

 

[SBMF 2015]

I’m not quite sure why the sales would require exposure to stress tubs. We used to use them for receiving calves with mixed results.

I usually have one round of shots in my calves a month or so before weaning and starting feeding the cows silage a couple weeks before. The calves eat right with their mommas and then one day we sort the cows off. The calves are already bunk broke and don’t bawl much.

I think if you early wean (120days) it’s a lot harder to get them over it than if you wait until 180+ days.

 

[Ky hills]

We try to get the calves banded and black legged fairly early, the a few weeks before planned weaning, we vaccinate for blackleg again and a round of Triangle 5. Then 2-3 weeks later at weaning another blackleg if they haven’t had the second one, and a modified live like Bovishield Gold.
I keep our calves up in a barn shed. for around a week give or take a couple of days depending on the calves are progressing. Typically, I like to get them out of the barn as soon as I can.
Usuallly, they are already used to eating some feed along side the cows from time to time while they are on the cows, that way they transition pretty good to feed at weaning,
We currently feed a 3 way mix of corn, soy hulls, corn gluten, and hay. For cattle in barns I feed small square bales that are better quality, our rolls are typically lower quality.
We use a beef breeder chelated mineral,
I may get some protein tubs for these when turned out as we are in a drought.
When I used to buy calves I’d start them out on a receiving/preconditioning ration then switch them to our feed.

 

[elkwc]

elk, are you fence line weaning or total removal?

I fence line wean but don't do anything special. The calves have had the same access to the minerals that the cows do. I provide the best hay I have, fresh water and get them started on some grain and thats it.

After three days I open another field and the cows usually leave for it. The calves are worked and moved to where they will be backgrounded for 40 to 60 days. I rarely have a sickness after weaning.

We wean in another location. Our calves never quit eating. The recent ones gained 2# per day. the first 20 days. When the Ferrappease craze went around vets and other cattle men that know our herd and program said we would see no benefit. And we didn’t. I usually try new products on a small group. These stress tubs contain Amaferm and probiotics. When we pasture wheat we don’t have to put out bloat blocks. Baby calves lick these tubs. I keep loose minerals out but they consume these also. They contain all vitamins in needed amounts. Our sickness rate decreased and weight gain increased since we started using them. There are stocker buyers that buy a ton flat bed of tubs at a time. Both the 60 lb tubs and the 200 lb tubs at the feed store I buy mine from. I feel they are a critical part of our program. They also seem to have a calming effect.

 

[CowboyRam]

I give my calves a weaning shot about two weeks before I wean, and fence line wean. I don't use stress tubs, but have loose mineral with biomos for both cows and calves. I am a firm believer in the biomos; this year I only treated a handful of calves for scours when I branded them. I'm pretty sure the ones that were treated were from cows I bought as replacements.

 

[elkwc]

We wean in another location. Our calves never quit eating. The recent ones gained 2# per day. the first 20 days. When the Ferrappease craze went around vets and other cattle men that know our herd and program said we would see no benefit. And we didn't. I usually try new products on a small group. These stress tubs contain Amaferm and probiotics. When we pasture wheat we don't have to put out bloat blocks. Baby calves lick these tubs. I keep loose minerals out but they consume these also. They contain all vitamins in needed amounts. Our sickness rate decreased and weight gain increased since we started using them. There are stocker buyers that buy a ton flat bed of tubs at a time. Both the 60 lb tubs and the 200 lb tubs at the feed store I buy mine from. I feel they are a critical part of our program. They also seem to have a calming effect.

These tubs contain MOS also.

 

[Brute 23]

I read an article one time about weaning and it said that they got about the same results fence line weaning and just removing them completely where the calves cant see or hear the cows. The kicker was they only fence line weaned them for like a couple days then took the cattle away. It was only suppose to be enough time for them to settle in then they needed to become independent. Nose flaps, weaning and putting calves back in with cows, or keeping them on the fence line for extended periods had worse results.

I thought that was interesting because I never heard any one mention that part about fence line weaning.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I currently fenceline for a few days then move the cows away, i used to separate and haul cows away asap. From weighing calves thru those processes I noticed the fenceline/move resulted in the least amount of weight loss and quickest rebound. Having an older dry cow or steer in with them that "knows the ropes" helps as well.

 

[bird dog]

I read an article one time about weaning and it said that they got about the same results fence line weaning and just removing them completely where the calves cant see or hear the cows.

I wonder how they measured the results? I would bet they didn't weigh them that day and then again a couple weeks down the line.

Remove calves to a different location and they will walk fences and bawl. They are likely to go thru a fence if they find a weak spot. They will separate from the group and go looking for mom.

Fence line weaning if done right needs to be in a smallish pen. They will still bawl but won't walk the fence since mom is just on the other side. In three or four days they will be bunk broke, water tank broke and back to gaining weight.
When put out to pasture they will stay in a group to graze and know to come to the trough if you are feeding them.

I let mine settle down for the three or four days before working them. Then they are moved to a field away from the herd and has good grass or good hay.

Its not for everybody, but if you have the facilities, you need to at least give it a try.

Chevys' mention about putting a old cow with them is spot on even if she is one of the calves mother. For me, thats usually the way it is as that cow is going to town when the job is complete.

Another thing you can do is just mix them in with some already weaned calves. The already weaned calves will show them the way to food and water and provide security.

 

[farmerjan]

We bring our cows and calves to the barn lots, for the cows to get preg checked . Then, the cows will go out to pasture and the calves will stay at the b arn lots... and we try to leave a couple cows with them... Usually if there is an open one or 2, or a couple that are shorter bred. Those cows will stay until the opens get sold, or the shorter bred ones will get moved out about 10 days to 2 weeks later and the calves have already got the routine of coming in for feed at the bunk. The calves have already gotten a little feed out to pastures when we call the cows so they know that the feed is a good thing, and they are in the barn lots with the cows usually for 2-5 days after moving them home, before the vet does the preg checks... all just depends on when they get moved and when he is available. We like to get them moved a few days ahead in case something goes wrong and we don't get them moved the day we plan... we have some leeway. So the calves are coming in with the cows already to the bunk, and when they are taken away, the couple of cows we leave are "nanny cows" , even if they are the mothers of a couple calves... they come right to call for some feed and the calves all naturally follow right in with them.
We might have a couple calves holler for a day or 2. We also wean later rather than early... most cows will be 5-6-7 months bred so calves are 6-10 months old... They are eating and drinking water from troughs already so do not need alot of training.
Cows get vacc when preg checked, and then the calves will get worked through a few days after the cows are gone. Gives them time to settle down and not be stressed from being "abandoned" by their momma's .

You do what works... We tried fenceline weaning and had more problems... we tried weaning earlier and had calves bawling and fence walking for several days... later weaning seems to work for us. Moving the cows away seems to make them forget and having a nanny or 2 there gives them some security, and then they learn to come to call and go right to the bunk to eat. Then when those couple of cows get taken away, the only ones that might bawl for a day are the ones that were still on those cows... and they quit after a day or so...

 

[elkwc]

Thanks for all the replies. Interesting to hear the different methods and opinions on weaning. Interesting to see what others consider the critical parts of weaning. Some consider a MLV shot the most. I see most don’t use stress tubs. And we consider them as critical as anything we do. We use killed virus instead of MLV due to issues we experienced in the past. I would never wean without stress tubs.

 

[GoWyo]

We did preconditioning vaccinations August 24. My bull calves are getting nose flaps next weekend then wean the following weekend. This let's me get them weaned and out of the way before weaning the rest of them. The rest of the calves will get pulled off the cows October 11-12, select replacements and sell everything else at auction October 13. The weaning pen will have bale feeders with grass hay and stress tubs. We weigh all the calves for AAA performance data. We run in common with some friends and we bring all the calves to our place to sort and weigh and haul to the sale barn. Works pretty slick. For several years I weaned and backgrounded calves then sold them for the same price as bawlers. So I'm just gonna sell them as bawlers.

 

[Brute 23]

I've tried in both ways, in fact, at the same time.

Growing up calves always got hauled to another place and turned out. It was a smaller place with no cows. When I say turned out, I mean from the cow to the trailer and right out on pasture. It's all I knew.

When I got on here is when I heard about the fence line weaning. I tried it with a small group. Basically just weaned those calves on that place. It did not go well from watching the calves. They bawled amd walked then pens next to the moms for days and days and wouldn't hardly eat. Every one ranted and raved about it but it was kind of hard to compare.

The next time, I weaned at that place and put those calves in that set of pens. The I hauled the calves from 2 other places to the same pens so this time I had a comparison. It was clear as day, most the hauled in calves were feeding almost immediately and making their own herd. The local bawlers recruited a few haul-ins and a local or two might have taken to feed quick, but it was down party lines for the most part.

A couple days in, I finally said this was for the birds and moved the cows to another pasture. The hauled in calves were wiping out the feed and the locals were standing at the fence drawing up in balwing.

Needles to say, I don't do that any more.

Our calves take to feed quick though and I attest that to I keep the herds salt and mineral in the same kind of bunks we feed in. The bunks get pulled from pasture to pasture as we rotate. Those calves really hit the salt and mineral when they are young so they are use to them. It's the same with tubs. I also cube the cattle when I check them every couple weeks to get a count so they are use to me doing that too. I think all that helps them adjust quickly.

Even the heifers I bought a couple weeks ago. They got weaned right off the mom. I hauled them to our place in town and put them in pens with no cows around at like 9pm, in the dark. The next morning I checked on them and gave them some feed. They were bawling a little. That even I went back and checked again and they had stopped already and eaten all their feed. I turned them out the next morning, 36hrs later.

From what I've seen with fence line weaning, no way to could turn calves out in 24 to 48hrs with only pasture fence between them. It would be a mess. Heck, I've seen one of our cows milk a calf through 5 strand barbed wire.

 

[GoWyo]

My summer lease pastures are 30+ miles away. I pull the calves and leave the cows. The last time I weaned with cows at home, I pulled calves off in the upper pasture and trailered them home. On day 2 the cows tore up a bunch of fence and cam down to the home pens and fence line weaned from the neighbor's pasture. I didn't use nose flaps that time. Weaning has generally gone smooth when I have used nose flaps. Maybe a half day of bawling and it's over

 

[Lucky]

We preg check and wean in fall. All the calves get vaccinated and put in a weaning trap to be fence line weaned for 6-10 days. They get hay, water, and free choice 14% commodity mix. After this we move them to our West pastures, they can see the mother cows but can't get close to them. The cows are generally done with the calves after a day or two but there's always a few that hang around. Been doing this for 10 yrs or more now.

We don't have water at the trap so fill an 8'x2' trough everyday for them with county water. They seem to calm down better and stop acting spooky.