Weak loader, but remotes work fine

[Atimm693]

Got a bit of a head scratcher on a Case Maxxum 110.

Last week I hauled some logs out of the woods and up to the mill. Loader was working fine, got back home and noticed the loader was slow.

At first I thought it was a joystick cable, but those are working fine. Full travel in both directions at the valve.

The remotes and 3pt seem to have full flow and pressure, no problem there. They run on the same pump as the loader.

Today I noticed that if you hold one of the remotes open (so fluid is running against the relief valve), the loader works perfectly fine. Either one, in either direction. I know that means something, but I'm not sure what.

The tractor has a Bush hog loader and a direct plumb kit. The loader does not run through on the remotes.

I believe the loader has priority over the remotes and 3pt, maybe the priority valve is stuck? Any advice is appreciated.

I have not changed the filters yet, but I don't believe they're the issue.

 

[cfpinz]

Does it have the little small line from the rear remote area to the loader valve? I think it's called a pressure sensing line. Sounds like your tractor doesn't recognize when the loader is calling for flow, but it does when the remotes call for it.

The line I'm referring to on my tractors with similar setups is steel tube hard plumbed from the factory, and the loaders use a braided hydraulic line to tap into the circuit and attach the valve. If that line were pinched/plugged it could exhibit the symptoms you're describing. Off the top of my head, I think there's a check valve where the flexible line hooks to the steel tube.

 

[Atimm693]

Does it have the little small line from the rear remote area to the loader valve? I think it's called a pressure sensing line. Sounds like your tractor doesn't recognize when the loader is calling for flow, but it does when the remotes call for it.

The line I'm referring to on my tractors with similar setups is steel tube hard plumbed from the factory, and the loaders use a braided hydraulic line to tap into the circuit and attach the valve. If that line were pinched/plugged it could exhibit the symptoms you're describing. Off the top of my head, I think there's a check valve where the flexible line hooks to the steel tube.

I will look, thanks.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I agree the load sense part of the system is acting up. There should be a "shuttle check tee" in the load sense line going to the loader valve. I would find it and remove/dissemble/clean/reinstall and see if it works. That small line it was senses the need for oil and signals the hydraulics to do it's thing, dead heading the remote valve signals for oil making the loader work better.

 

[cfpinz]

"shuttle check tee"

The proper term for the check valve I was referring to. Thanks.

Expensive little boogers if I recall correctly.

Atimm - If you have time, would you mind to take a picture of where this line attaches to the valve on your Bush Hog loader? I've got a BH 2846 plugged into one of the rear remotes on a 7710 Ford with Deluxe Remotes and would love to hard plumb it but not sure if I'll have to change out the loader valve.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Cfpinz if currently you have a 2 spool valve plugged into the remote (then tieing the remote lever back or holding it in detent when you want to use the loader ) then it should be a standard open center valve. On a 7710 II with ccls hydraulic you will need a closed center load sense valve ($$$), then you T into the load sense line with one of those expensive shuttle check T's.

Just made the switch last spring on my Ford TW5 and although it was pricey it was worth it.

 

[cfpinz]

Cfpinz if currently you have a 2 spool valve plugged into the remote (then tieing the remote lever back or holding it in detent when you want to use the loader ) then it should be a standard open center valve. On a 7710 II with ccls hydraulic you will need a closed center load sense valve ($$$), then you T into the load sense line with one of those expensive shuttle check T's.

Just made the switch last spring on my Ford TW5 and although it was pricey it was worth it.

You are correct, that's how I have it plumbed currently.

I called Bush Hog a few years back to see if my current valve was capable of working with the ccls hydraulics, and got a blank stare over the phone. Don't reckon I'm lucky enough for there to be port where the valve is capable of being switched over. The Alo loader on my 8260 is plumbed with a ccls valve, that's mighty handy.

I'm guessing $700-1000 to switch your TW5 over?

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I've never seen a CCLS valve that could be switched before. Quite a bit of internal plumbing differences. OC to CC or vis verse sure but not the LS part.

It didn't run me that much. I found a 2 spool remote valve from a Case 2294 (which is CCLS) at a salvage yard for 100 bucks, bough the T from NH for like 50. Some new fittings and hoses, and a modified valve mount and I was in business. Was able to reuse the factory joystick. Probably had less than 500 into it.

If buying new just a CCLS stack valve will run 700 ish.

 

[Atimm693]

I looked at the loader valve briefly this morning, and I did not see any small load sense lines. Just the 4 loader outputs, the pressure/return lines (which go to power beyond ports on below the remotes), and the cables. I will look again to be sure.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

IIRC if it uses PB ports out of the bottom of the remote valve then it probably won't use a load sense line. It is using the remote valve for the load sense and it's just piggy backing the flow.

When it was working correctly if you tried to use your remote valve to raise an implement would the loader still function normally?

 

[Atimm693]

IIRC if it uses PB ports out of the bottom of the remote valve then it probably won't use a load sense line. It is using the remote valve for the load sense and it's just piggy backing the flow.

When it was working correctly if you tried to use your remote valve to raise an implement would the loader still function normally?

The loader has priority over the remotes and 3pt if I remember right, if you used the loader they would stop.

 

[bse]

My 5060 was doing the same thing, everything is factory on it, dealer took all the valves apart checked everything, in the end it was the joystick its self, seemed crazy to me but that fixed it.

 

[Atimm693]

Got it fixed, relief valve on the power beyond plate had backed off, tightened it back up and it's working perfectly.

 

[Nesikep]

good to hear, I was thinking it was something on the loader valve system

 

[Atimm693]

good to hear, I was thinking it was something on the loader valve system

Spent hours thumbing through the 3000 page service manual trying to understand how that setup works, and the problem was staring right at me the whole time.